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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
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Lazlokovacs

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PostSubject: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:20 pm

Hi everyone,

This is my first post here (I'm a longtime wildguzzi member)

I have a lot of experience with guzzis, both riding and wrenching. Definitely over 100,000 miles on FI guzzis and over 100,000 on carbys.

My current fleet is a 60s loop frame that I made a new front end for (brembos and suspension!!!)

And a Tonti Lemans V.

I'm currently spedning too much time maintaining these 2 old bikes and not enough time riding (the loop being the more reliable)

I spent a few days test riding a GRiSO 1200 8v SE some time back and really enjoyed it.

Having researched the Forum (and followed the rollerisation threads over the years) I have a few questions for the experts..


1 - has startus interruptus been known to affect the 1200s?

2 - will a 2013 bike definitely been rollerised from the factory or is it pot luck?

3 - Will Aprillia Mana bars require any lengthening or significant rewiring of electrical or brake cables? (I didnt enjoy the stock wide bars as I do a lot of filtering)

4 - Can I use the same cables to upload a map via guzzidiag as I previously used on my CalVin?

5 - If I ask nicely and buy you a virtual nice bottle of plonk, Beetle can you send me a map? Thumbs Up  (One of my regrets with the Calvin was that there was no beetle map available)

6 - Are there any performance gains to be had (beyond weight savings) with any of the main brand aftermarket exhausts? Or losses? I don't mind my guzzis being on the loud side


I'm looking for a second hand good'un and I'd like to pre-emptively address all the known issues and upload a decent map as soon as purchased so that I can just get on with riding and routine maintenance for the foreseeable.



Thanks for the great forum, looking forward to everyone's thoughts.
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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
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Lazlokovacs

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PostSubject: ps   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:28 pm

ps

totally forgot

question 7 - do the spark plug caps need changing to NGK or something decent?

question 8 - is the seat good for long,long days? Is there a preferred aftermarket seat?
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JohnA
GRiSO Capo
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:04 am

Hello,

There are people here that can answer all your questions, but I’m not one of them. I have a 2014 and believe all 2013’s were rollerised but Pete Roper can tell you for sure
I believe startus interruptus effects 2013’s. My 2014 had that problem. I bought a kit from MPH Cycles in Houston for $35 USD and put in a 20 amp fuse and all is good. It came with a 15 amp and would blow periodically.
Beetle Maps are $100 and make the bike so much better. You can find them at GRiSO.org
Have never seen anyone here say there is a performance gain from a new exhaust. People like the look or sound of an aftermarket exhaust which is why the do it
A lot of guys change to NGK plug caps but mine are original and if you are careful when removing them the originals can be fine for years. Many other guys have had problems so it probably depends on how the bike was treated before you bought it.
Corbin makes a Gunfighter Seat for the GRiSO that is very popular. I’m still good with the original but it you want to ride long distances you might want the Corbin or something else custom. Personal preference once again. I’ll have to leave the rest of the questions to the experts.
Good luck with your search.
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GuzziSteve
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:11 am

Welcome Laz, I would just get it and deal w/issues as they come up. I think it's the least problematic of all CARC models.
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Kiwi_Roy
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:20 am

Most Guzzis can suffer from Startus Interuptus it happens because the starter wiring is not robust enough but it's easily fixed.
Steve may be right the ignition switch on this model is more direct so not as likely to suffer from Voltage drop when you force the solenoid current through it.
The earlier 2 Valve GRiSO bypassed the switch.
Personally I would never consider a 4 valve that wasn't already rollerized.
I have the Corbin Gunfighter with 1-1/2" lower pegs from Knight Design. I can ride all day with that.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:27 am


Lazlokovacs wrote:


1 - has startus interruptus been known to affect the 1200s?

Yes

Quote :
2 - will a 2013 bike definitely been rollerised from the factory or is it pot luck?

Highly unlikely not to be

Quote :
3 - Will Aprillia Mana bars require any lengthening or significant rewiring of electrical or brake cables? (I didnt enjoy the stock wide bars as I do a lot of filtering)

No

Quote :
4 - Can I use the same cables to upload a map via guzzidiag as I previously used on my CalVin?

Yes

Quote :
5 - If I ask nicely and buy you a virtual nice bottle of plonk, Beetle can you send me a map? Thumbs Up  (One of my regrets with the Calvin was that there was no beetle map available)

Won't hurt to ask...

Quote :
6 - Are there any performance gains to be had (beyond weight savings) with any of the main brand aftermarket exhausts? Or losses? I don't mind my guzzis being on the loud side

Yes. See question 5.

Quote :
7 - do the spark plug caps need changing to NGK or something decent?

Not unless you are ham-fisted with them. With careful removal, they will remain functional for many years.

Quote :
8 - is the seat good for long,long days? Is there a preferred aftermarket seat?

No. It's terrible. Corbin is your friend.






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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:52 am

thanks so much guys

kiwiroy - thanks to your help on WG I have previous experience rewiring a startus interruptus guzzi

beetle -

2- I was looking at a 2013 plated 1200 today, the seller told me that it originally had flatties and it was converted at around 14000 miles. I'm not taking that chance, but thought I'd share the data point.

5- I didn't realise that there was a set retail price for the maps, I understand the hard work that goes into them and I'd obviously be happy to pay the full whack. (let's call it a VERY nice bottle of plonk Very Happy )

6- I don't really care about the looks, which exhaust breathes best in your experience?


thanks again, really appreicate the input
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:54 am


Yeah, there’s been a couple of early build MY13 units documented as flatties.


Mistral Hi-Pipe. No question.






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kiwi dave
Nibbio
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:56 am

Check the VIN number on the bike. Roller followers supposedly commenced with motor#A813524. (Build Date 12 April 2012).

Might mean that the 2013 plated is a lot earlier manufactured if it originally had the flat tappets.
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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:57 am

Check the VIN number on the bike. Roller followers supposedly commenced with motor#A813524. (Build Date 12 April 2012).

Might mean that the 2013 plated is a lot earlier manufactured if it originally had the flat tappets.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:15 pm

Mark's essentially covered it. Only thing I would add is that if the seller is unsure of whether the bike is a flat or roller tappet model they are probably not going to have much of a clue about how to tune or maintain it either.

Better to pay a premium price to purchase from somewhere knowledgeable than get a cheap machine that may of been buggered up by ignorance. Sadly that happens a lot.
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Dave Swanson
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:26 pm

6- I don't really care about the looks, which exhaust breathes best in your experience?

beetle wrote:


Mistral Hi-Pipe. No question.


It always makes me chuffed to hear this as I was lucky to have Mistral Hi  exhaust already installed by the previous owner on the 2016 I picked up last year.  

And by all accounts from what I have been told, for the best all around performance db Killer - IN is the way to go.

For your reference, I purchased this 2016 last year from a private seller with 1400 miles for $6000.  

I had purchased the Beetle map before I drove to Atlanta to pick it up.  Upon return, I rolled it out of the van and into the garage, and hooked it up to the the laptop that was ready to go.  I never rode it a mile before completing the Beetle map and Roper spec tune.

Good luck on your search!

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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:54 pm

thanks again guys, brilliant info

now I've just got to find one.... seems like everybody was trying to sell one 2 years ago but not a lot on the market right now in the uk

a couple in France but man oh man used vehicles are pricey here...

also, so many 2009-2013 bikes out there with just no mention of the rollers in the ads.... seems criminal!

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:23 pm

If you can find a low mileage late 2010 to 2012 flattie that is an option. Sure there is an element of risk but it's pretty small.

Why no earlier than that? Two reasons really. Firstly earlier bikes require the heads taking off to rollerise which adds appreciably to time and cost and secondly the 2008/9 bikes sometimes suffer from the leaky rear main bearing flange issue which really is a king sized pain in the arse to fix if you do it yourself or is pricey to get someone else to do.

Checking for the drill mark in the paint on the valley side of the head will confirm if it's an A or B kit bike and as long as it doesn't make any horrible noises and idles correctly from cold it's probably worth a punt as long as you get a suitable price reduction worked into the purchase.

If you do go down that route though I'd strongly advise not starting it again until it has been rollerised but as long as the failure isn't too far advanced subsequent failure of other parts of the motor is rare.

Obviously a factory roller bike is preferable but needs must when the devil drives......

Pete
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Street
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:50 pm

Welcome to the Ghetto, Lazlo!

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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:20 pm

one more question


were all SE models rollerised at the factory?
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:02 pm


All GRiSO's were rollerised post 2013 (except for that grey area mid 2012 to early 2013, where it was pot luck), and since all GRiSO's made after 2012 were SE's, the answer to your question is "yes".

No GRiSO (SE or regular) made prior to mid 2012 had factory rollers.





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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:07 pm

Nope. The SE suffix was originally used for the Tenni green models which predated the roller motor.

The main things that differentiate the SE from other models are wire wheels and a paint job. Some of them have a different seat. Other than that all GRiSO's are pretty much the same apart from invisible changes like the cambox and rocker cover differences.

Pete
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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:47 am

looking at one with vin number of


ZGULSG01XEM200258


registered in 2014


can anyone come up with an engine number?


chap says it was rollerised 'he thinks'

bike is too far away to go over and remove the rocker cover.

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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:45 am

Get him to whip off the cover and take a photo of the followers and send it to you.

Then you won't be disappointed when you finally arrive to look at it.

My GRiSO has a VIN of ZGULSG019FM200xxx (x means withheld number); bike was a 2015 model purchased new in 2017.

I believe VIN numbers are assigned by the importer, not the manufacturer.
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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:18 pm

hmmmm

some challenging responses to my attempts to purchase a second hand rollerised GRiSO out there.

the pattern seems to be that I see an advert and ask the seller if his bike was originally equipped with rollers, or been revised, or flats.

he'll dodge the question. maybe twice.

I'll politely repeat the question, then he'll say... it's definitely got rollers

I'll say, how do you know? and do you know if they are original or a revision kit?

He'll say, well its a 2013 so it's definitely got rollers from the get-go

As that doesn't prove it one way or another (this is guzzi, plenty of 2012 motors in 2013 registered bikes)

I'll ask for the engine number and the seller will get suspicious and think I'm doing something weird.

Or ask him to pull the rocker cover, which they have so far refused (fair enough, very few riders are mechanics)

hmmmmmmmmmm not quite sure how to break this impasse


I'm trying to avoid buying a bike that is being sold because it has had engine failure in the past.

As all the bikes I've found are far away, I'd love to get as much information as possible before travelling to inspect the bike.


so - my question - is there any conclusive question I can ask? Does the photo of the valves prove all? ie can you tell if its original rollers, flats or a kit from the photo?

again, thanks for your time guys.


another data point - almost NO adverts out there reference the tappets at all. I suspect there are a few traps out there for the unwary buyer.


and ps - to be fair to one dealership who had a second hand 1200, they were very clear, said it was rollerised by us at 16k miles. Unfortunately, that's too high a risk for me to consider purchasing.
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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:26 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
Nope. The SE suffix was originally used for the Tenni green models which predated the roller motor.

The main things that differentiate the SE from other models are wire wheels and a paint job. Some of them have a different seat. Other than that all GRiSO's are pretty much the same apart from invisible changes like the cambox and rocker cover differences.

Pete


allright one more question

are all the SEs EXCEPT the Tenni, original roller tappet affairs?


apologies for all the questions guys, I've spent a good few hours ploughing through here and WG and haven't found answers
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:57 pm


Allegedly, yes. Actually, possibly not. All GRiSO's from 2013 had "SE" in their name, but some flatties still snuck through in early 2013.




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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:15 pm

All I would say is that if they are unwilling to pull a rocker cover, something you don't have to be a 'Mechanic' to do for heavens sakes, then look elsewhere.

As for a definitive indicator of if the bike was originally a roller bike the only thing I can think of is to look at the rockers. While not a cast iron guarantee it will be a pretty good indicator. The very last of the flattie motors had the 'New' style rockers I believe but certainly ALL roller motors have them.

If a rollerised bike is not going to be acceptable to you just go for a Diavolo Rosso. They are, without exception, roller bikes.

Pete
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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: looking for a GRiSO, have some questions   looking for a GRiSO, have some questions Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:11 pm

great info as ever cheers

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