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evev
Squinternotto
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PostSubject: rear blinkers getting power   rear blinkers getting power Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:33 am

hi everyone, that's my first post here in 6 years of ownership, i really hope i can get some advice as couldn't find the answer anywhere:

after changing rear blinkers to LED i noticed that they glow when they are off, even when bike is off. apparently there is 8V coming there all the time and only to the rear ones, it just wasn't obvious with lamps as they remained off under that low voltage.

another strange thing was that sockets for computer connection and connection for USB plug have (-)11V on them regardless if engine is running or not, accordingly they could not power anything.

any ideas, fellas?
eugene
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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: rear blinkers getting power   rear blinkers getting power Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:50 pm

LEDs require suitable resistors in parallel with them, to fool the system otherwise they will report a blown bulb. My suggestion is 15Ω, 5 watt. The 1200 8V has individual connection from the dashboard, so if you have fitted them front and rear you will require four of them.

As for the -11v, perhaps you have your meter leads swapped? Can't fathom how else you can find -11v.
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evev
Squinternotto
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PostSubject: Re: rear blinkers getting power   rear blinkers getting power Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:52 pm

Thanks for prompt reply.
I get resistors fitted with them but it still got constant 8V coming there when everything is off. Once on - it comes full 12V on and off.
Nothing coming to front ones although you mentioned there is separate connection...
Does ECU software have anything to do with that, just suggestion?
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evev
Squinternotto
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PostSubject: Re: rear blinkers getting power   rear blinkers getting power Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:56 pm

As for -11V on the plugs- meter is fine and shows right elsewhere. That -11V remains steady whether bike is off or on. Neither GPS nor USB plug take it. I could understand if there was 12v and wires were mixed up but 11v..?
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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: rear blinkers getting power   rear blinkers getting power Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:01 pm

Because of the very high input impedance of multimeters (especially digital ones), they can get fooled by minute spurious voltages that might be around. Hang a small wattage 12v light bulb across the input in parallel with the circuit being measured and see if this changes anything.
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evev
Squinternotto
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PostSubject: Re: rear blinkers getting power   rear blinkers getting power Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:34 am

thanks for your note, mate but unfortunately the problem is not in there b the way it looks:
the multimeter is not digital and quite high quality, with the original bulbs in parallel or resistors there is 8v power present when everything is off unless i pull the main right fuse out.
oficial dealers couldn't help that either.. must be real italian bug
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Kiwi_Roy
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PostSubject: Re: rear blinkers getting power   rear blinkers getting power Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:18 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
There is something odd going on, the lamp hot side is well grounded through the incandescent lamp.
Perhaps the common ground is not connected properly letting the lamp float above ground.
(after all the front is wired the same way and its no problem)
I don't know why it should float so high but perhaps there's a high impedance resistor pulling it up.
For instance the resistor that triggers the blown lamp alarm, it would trigger the alarm if the filament is not holding it down.
I would double check the lamp ground connection.

I'm not sure what you will need to do to run LEDs, perhaps just a small load resistor e.g. 100 Ohms, just enough to counter the blown lamp resistor.


Last edited by Kiwi_Roy on Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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evev
Squinternotto
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PostSubject: Re: rear blinkers getting power   rear blinkers getting power Icon_minitime1Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:25 pm

thanks, Roy, thanks everyone.
that power is present at the coupling under the tail and to chase it further would mean ripping through the whole harness, i'd try to avoid it by all means although got my hands itching to do ust that.
so far the change of the resistors for higher wattage - 20W/10ohm solved the problem with glowing although i still might be drawing battery so will have to watch out for that.
really appreciate your care - good to know there is someone out there
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: rear blinkers getting power   rear blinkers getting power Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:28 am

I know it's a different scenario as you shouldn't now have any bulbs in the circuit but saw this the other day (whilst looking for a rear light for V50 project) and reminded me of your problem....just a piece of info, not suggesting to buy one !

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evev
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PostSubject: Re: rear blinkers getting power   rear blinkers getting power Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:40 pm

thanks for the thought. i had this in mind but thought resistors should have worked that out.
have a good one
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: rear blinkers getting power   rear blinkers getting power Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:26 pm

With vehicles, I would advise on using 1000 volt diodes - doesn't hurt to have overkill, and save the things going bust. Probably not as applicable on motorcycles, but with auto electrics now getting into the 40 v - 60 v range (or even higher with electric propulsion) planning for the worst case, means there is a decent margin of safety. Just keep it in mind...
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Kiwi_Roy
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PostSubject: Re: rear blinkers getting power   rear blinkers getting power Icon_minitime1Yesterday at 5:16 pm

I told Eugene I would get to the bottom of this, it was a beautiful sunny day so I ran the GRiSO out into the driveway.
First off I removed one of the rear lamps, its a standard incandescent and measures 1.4 Ohms when cold. When I turned the ignition on without the lamp in place the dash threw up a bad lamp alarm. It does this as soon as the key is On irrespective of where the indicator switch is.
As I suspected there is a very small current pulling the Dash Input/Output (lamp wire) high. This current measures just over 40 microamps and its there whether the key is On or Off.
Without the lamp the open circuit Voltage goes to 11.2 Volts (key on or off)
At some point the dash recognizes this Voltage as an open circuit lamp and will trigger the alarm on the graphic.
I tried a few resistors across the lamp holder  to see what effect they have
100K Ohm is too large, the alarm stays On
1K Ohm pulls the open circuit Voltage down to 0.04 and turns the alarm Off, I also tried 2K and that also kept the alarm Off at 0.08 Volts
This is good news as the 10 Ohm resistors others were advocating are huge.
..............
I converted one side of the bike to LEDs using some lamps I have, these worked fine without shunt resistors, there were no alarms.
The lamps I used are 19 LED clusters with a forward Voltage of 1.97 Volts (obviously all the LEDs are in parallel)
Other LEDs may have a different forward Voltage e.g if the LEDs are connected in series. This would mean the forward bias Voltage would be higher, perhaps enough to trigger the bad lamp graphic.
..............
Conclusion:
I believe any 12 Volt LED will work with the GRiSO dash, you may or may not need a shunt resistor depending on the lamp configuration.
..............
Recommendation:
If your bike throws up alarms with LEDs solder a 1K resistor directly across the lamp holder contacts, this will hold the Voltage down below the alarm trigger point. There is plenty of room in the OEM indicator lamp holder for the small resistor. No need to insulate it as the surrounding parts are plastic.
A 1K resistor will dissipate only 0.144 Watts so 1/4 Watt is adequate. I'm sure you could go much higher in resistance but there is no point 1K is a very easy size to find.

BTW This open lamp alarm will have a small residual current 4 x 40 microamps because you cannot turn it off but compared to the battery this is insignificant.
I hope you can understand this, if not please throw some questions my way.
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