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 GRiSO Valve Adjustment

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Utesch
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PostSubject: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:02 am

Getting ready to do my first valve adjustment on my 2015 GRiSO. Do I need to replace the valve cover gaskets and O rings? Or can I safely reuse them. The bike is approaching 6K miles and the first adjustment was done by the dealer at 1K miles. And yes, that's not very many miles on a 2015 but in my defense I bought it as a leftover in 2018. And I live in Central New York. Thanks!

Tom
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:18 am

There is no definitive answer. Usually you can get several re-uses out of the rocker cover gaskets and plug tube gasket. What is more likely to not so much leak as 'Mist' are the tampons, (Yes, that's what they're called, it means 'Plug' in Italian.) under the rocker cover bolts. Be aware there are two types. You'll need the later type.

My suggestion would be buy two gaskets, two plug tube gaskets and eight tampons. Just have them on hand but don't use them unless you get a weep after you put the covers back on. Neither gaskets or tampons are expensive and you can guarantee that if you don't have them you will need them!

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Utesch
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:22 am

Great advice. I will order the parts and be ready. Thanks Pete.
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Dave Swanson
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:17 am

This post got me off of my duff to order some tampons and gaskets before I found myself needing one. Thanks Tom, and Pete!
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Birch
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:47 pm

Speaking of this, is there a how to for great instruction following but inexperienced mechanics on doing a valve check on my 1100?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:14 pm

Same as the 1200 only two less valves.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

There is the slight difference in that you need to remove the rocker protection bar and HT lead cover on the 1100 but the actual adjustment process is the same.

With the pushrod motor the adjusters are above the pushrods rather than the valves but you still measure the clearance at the valve.

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motor-timothy
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:03 am

Utesch wrote:
Great advice. I will order the parts and be ready. Thanks Pete.

What Pete said, though I'd add that since I replaced them all 3 years ago I never had to replace the gaskets/rubber plugs for the bolts again and I do valve checks 2 or 3 times a year. I'd estimate the rocker covers have gone off at least 10 times since then. But its good to have a supply of them if you do need them (at some point).
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Bulldog9
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:02 pm

Utesch wrote:
Getting ready to do my first valve adjustment on my 2015 GRiSO. Do I need to replace the valve cover gaskets and O rings? Or can I safely reuse them. The bike is approaching 6K miles and the first adjustment was done by the dealer at 1K miles. And yes, that's not very many miles on a 2015 but in my defense I bought it as a leftover in 2018. And I live in Central New York. Thanks!

Tom

I'm sure there are exceptions, but I had the covers off my 14 Norge 8V at least a dozen times the first year I owned it in an attempt to cure a rev issue. Never had a problem then, or for the 3 valve adjustments that followed. I always clean off and wipe with thin layer of oil when changing. No issues, no leaks.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:32 pm


The only times I’ve ever had to replace my valve cover gaskets is when I crash. So, quite a few times. Very Happy


cheers


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DangWangi
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:50 am

Pete Roper wrote:
There is no definitive answer. Usually you can get several re-uses out of the rocker cover gaskets and plug tube gasket. What is more likely to not so much leak as 'Mist' are the tampons, (Yes, that's what they're called, it means 'Plug' in Italian.) under the rocker cover bolts. Be aware there are two types. You'll need the later type.

My suggestion would be buy two gaskets, two plug tube gaskets and eight tampons. Just have them on hand but don't use them unless you get a weep after you put the covers back on. Neither gaskets or tampons are expensive and you can guarantee that if you don't have them you will need them!



Is there an easy way to tell if the bike uses the "early" type or "late" type of gasket without removing the covers? Mine is a 2013 for what it's worth and wanted to order up a set but wasn't sure which I needed.
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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:13 pm

Fairly sure you will want the earlier gaskets. IIRC, the later valve covers that were similar to the Cali 1400 commenced in 2014. This corresponds to the change in spare parts manuals too.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:12 pm

Don't think so. The change came in 2012. You should be able to tell by popping off the plug lead on one side and having a squizz down the tunnel. If there is no discernible stripe around the plug hole it's an early engine if there is a thick black stripe about 2.5mm or so deep a few mm below the top of the tunnel that's the gasket and you need the later type.

Note as well that if you need the later plug tube gaskets you also need the later style 'Dished' tampons.

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Donzo
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PostSubject: Confirming valve clearances    GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:17 pm

Hi all,

Just got my 2017 GRiSO 8V SE back from the shop for an overdue inspection and adjustment. Bought it new last August and so am only at 3700 km’s now. Have already done oil, filter and spark plugs myself but was not comfortable with valve adjustment.

Upon getting my bike back from the shop, I compared the clearances they set with the ones indicated in the service manual AND under the seat. Here’s my concern:

1. Manufacturer (Manual & chart under seat) says inlet valve should be “.10mm” & outlet should be “.15mm” but...
2. Paperwork from shop says they used .15 (inlet) and .7 (outlet)

If this is correct then my inlet clearance is too big and my outlet is too small. Can’t say I noticed any real difference when riding home but I am concerned that (per service manual), I could experience issues.

Can any of you comment on how important these clearances are and if my dealer needs to be re-doing my adjustments?


Thanks!

Don
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:43 pm

Well if they really set the exhaust tappets at 0.7mm it would be making a noise like a chaff cutter!

That big a clearance would cause an issue as the hammering, especially with the way the roller cams load up the valvetrain. Really though there is little point in asking us. If you're worried ask the shop that did it or check it yourself. It really isn't a big job, just make sure you pop the plug caps off from underneath rather than pulling them from the top.

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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:50 pm


It's probably a typo. After the flat tappet fiasco raised its ugly head, didn't Guzzi make the suggestion to set valves at 0.15 & 0.2? That 0.7 may have meant to be 0.2.

I'd set them back to 0.1 & 0.15.




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McCarthy1983
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:02 am

When I did the valve clearnces for the first time, in addition to tampons and gaskets I also had a set of cover bolts as a couple rounded off when I took them out. Have learnt over the years that MG nuts and bolts are made of cheese and good to have spares whenever work is done.

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eeyore
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:38 am

Cheese??? That’s being very kind.
Was size hex should they be?
All my tools are high end top quality stuff and it was difficult to determine if they are metric, imperial or something guzzi made up.

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Donzo
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PostSubject: Reply from dealer about valve clearances   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:23 am

Well, Beetle you were correct. What I thought was a "7" was a "2". Anyhow, response from my dealer is that their manual says to set 8V-1200 valves at .15 (inlet) and .2 (outlet). He didn't have an answer for why the chart under seat indicates .1 and .15. Perhaps, this is related to the tappet issues mentioned.

The service guy also told me that "they will have a tendency to tighten up over time, which will of course bring it closer to the specs you have, which is safer than having them get too tight." Hope this ends up being true!
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:14 pm

Donzo wrote:


The service guy also told me that "they will have a tendency to tighten up over time, which will of course bring it closer to the specs you have, which is safer than having them get too tight." Hope this ends up being true!



Er..no. The rocker arm carrier is an alloy that expands as it gets hot. Consequently, and counterintuitively, the valve clearance opens up a bit as the engine heats up.



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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:43 pm

My feeling is that if you're running a closed loop map a thou or so difference in gap won't make a lot of difference as in the closed loop portion of the map it will trim around any minor changes in air capacity being moved and when it goes open loop it'll be, with the stock map, rich anyway.

What we have found is that When you're running a good open loop map the engine is very sensitive to even small changes in valve clearances and while this seemed to be more noticeable in the bad old days of flat tappets it is still noticeable even with the roller motors.

Bottom line is that a thou or two too big or too small is highly unlikely to cause any damage but it will, especially if you're running an open loop map, be noticeable. Not in terms of outright performance but in terms of smoothness and overall 'Feel'. Those things that are very hard to quantify but you're aware when they change.
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Donzo
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PostSubject: Valves adjusted per Piaggio dealer manual   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:07 pm

I believe the service manager at my dealer was suggesting that the clearance would become slightly reduced over time, as compared to the inevitable expansion that will occur between when engine is cold and when it warms up. Whether that is B.S. or not, he did send me a shot of the page his tech referred to when doing my valves recently. Seems my valves are now set for the clearances Piaggio is advising their dealers to go with which is .15 and .20.

Seems a good ride is in order so I can see for myself...









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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:45 pm

The metallurgy at each junction in the valve operating train and the valve seat itself dictate if a particular engine will wear the gaps wider or tighter.

However in general terms it is likely that Bucket-Follower OHC and SV engines will tend to wear toward a tighter gap as the valve seat recedes.
It is also likely that OHV and high cam engines with rockers will tend to wear towards a looser gap as the rocker heads north in its bearings.

Experience with any one engine is the best guide
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DaSwami
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:39 pm

Seems like it would be easiest and best just to pry off the rubber thingie on the side of the engine block and use the TDC witness mark....
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:39 pm

eeyore wrote:
Cheese??? That’s being very kind.
Was size hex should they be?
All my tools are high end top quality stuff and it was difficult to determine if they are metric, imperial or something guzzi made up.

All metric - though there are fine, medium and coarse thread pitches in circulation. Generally available screws/bolts, taps and dies tend to be the coarse, special orders for medium or fine with any of these. Always check the threads per mm, that is the indicator.

If anyone needs a drill/tap chart for metric stuff I have one as a PDF somewhere - this gives the pitches for all the common sizes, even 7 mm! If you want one, I'll host it somewhere and put a link in here. There's plenty of listings on the inter-webby-thingy, anyway.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Valve Adjustment   GRiSO Valve Adjustment Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:00 pm

DaSwami wrote:
Seems like it would be easiest and best just to pry off the rubber thingie on the side of the engine block and use the TDC witness mark....


If only Luigi had bothered to put one on every bike, because he bloody well didn't with mine!




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