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hookah
Montanarolo
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hookah

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PostSubject: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:52 pm

Anyone have suggestions for decreasing the clutch pull effort?Cheers.
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beetle
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beetle

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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:07 pm


Radial master cylinder.



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paulbrice
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paulbrice

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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:52 am

Also think it depends how old the bike is; vaguely remember that early ones (2009 like mine Wink ) were the heaviest and that more recent ones had improvement (around 2011 ??). Somewhere along the road I read they either switched to fitting 1400 Cali clutches OR at least people switched to using replacement 1400 clutches because they are lighter.

I fitted Brembo Radial Masters for clutch & brake and they help a lot but (BREMBO ones at least) it wasn't cheap ..... Probably not much more expensive to throw in a 1400 clutch assembly instead. If I ever manage to need a new clutch I'd go that way.
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Robinson_Spike
Tanabuso
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Robinson_Spike

Posts : 53
Join date : 2020-03-24

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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:41 pm

Sounds to me like you’ve got too many bikes, my clutch only feels heavy after I’ve been unfaithful.

Oberon performance here in the UK make a slave cylinder which claims to reduce friction and thus required lever force through innovative seal design.

Paul Brice - piece of piss to do a clutch, let me know when your ready, you can have my 27000 mile plate it’s barely worn 😂😂
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paulbrice
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paulbrice

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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:23 am

Thanks Spike - Why have you got a barely worn 27,000 mile clutch plate sitting around ??
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Robinson_Spike
Tanabuso
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Robinson_Spike

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Join date : 2020-03-24

Clutch pull Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:39 am

I swapped it out when I was rebuilding the gearbox, just as well too as they hadn’t centralised the diaphragm cone springy and the clutch had only been ‘slipping’ on half of the flywheel and cover. - faulty from the factory but working great now 👍🏻
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BrianD
Don Abbondio
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Posts : 80
Join date : 2015-12-19

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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:54 am

@Robinson_Spike - have you fitted/got an Oberon slave cylinder, if so which model was it?
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Robinson_Spike
Tanabuso
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Robinson_Spike

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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:46 am

BrianD wrote:
@Robinson_Spike - have you fitted/got an Oberon slave cylinder, if so which model was it?

Not yet, I have to admit I’m yet to approach them and check compatibility based on a naive assumption that the Aprilia or Moto Morini was probably the same dimensions.

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Bulldog9
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Clutch pull Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:32 am

hookah wrote:
Anyone have suggestions for decreasing the clutch pull effort?Cheers.

I bought adjustable levers, work perfect. It "feels' like it lowers the level, but it is only because the reach has decreased by 1/2 and puts the lever at first knuckle rather than at the end of my reach which killed my arthritic left hand and arm. $35 on e-bay.
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sideshowbob
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:52 pm

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BrianD
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:09 am

I spoke to Oberon a while ago now and they suggested I pop down and see them, since then I have aquired a spare slave cylinder so I can take that down for direct comparision.

I just wondered if they had released one for the 1200's

Just not had the time to do this yet
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Robinson_Spike
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:43 am

BrianD wrote:
I spoke to Oberon a while ago now and they suggested I pop down and see them, since then I have aquired a spare slave cylinder so I can take that down for direct comparision.

I just wondered if they had released one for the 1200's

Just not had the time to do this yet

I’ve dealt with them directly for bar-end mirrors and have no doubt that they’re very capable - I’ll certainly be buying one if they list it and all thanks to you 👍🏻👍🏻
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:06 pm

Presume (means I don't know the answer) the Oberon 'end result' would be much the same, but lot cheaper at £100 parts, as changing the MCS to bigger diameter ?....but guess you can't just flip the effort ratio in same way the Brembo radials allow .....ie trading hand effort per mm clutch pull for longer travel (or visa versa) ??.

Unless you change the total force required (fit lighter clutch springs/plate), isn't it always just an effort over distance pulled trade ?

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Robinson_Spike
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Robinson_Spike

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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:31 pm

paulbrice wrote:
Presume (means I don't know the answer) the Oberon 'end result' would be much the same, but lot cheaper at £100 parts, as changing the MCS to bigger diameter ?....but guess you can't just flip the effort ratio in same way the Brembo radials allow .....ie trading hand effort per mm clutch pull for longer travel (or visa versa) ??.

Unless you change the total force required (fit lighter clutch springs/plate), isn't it always just an effort over distance pulled trade ?


Absolutely, You don’t usually get something for nothing but perhaps you would with the Oberon solution as they use a unique precision seal (that they machine whilst frozen) so it is more efficient thus less friction to overcome.

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They claim 40% less effort!
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:27 am

The heavy clutch on my 2009 8v is getting to me - makes it really hard to operate indicators whilst manoeuvering in town Sad .

I have not got the garage space to do a clutch replacement so as the clutch clears easily i thought I would explore a change in leverage.

1) Has anyone tried an oberon 'command' cylinder? If so what model.
2) Considering the master cylinder - what diameter has been succesful 17mm or 19mm?

JonG
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Sunbeam
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Sunbeam

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Join date : 2018-02-27

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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:26 pm

Agree adjustable levers make clutch feel lighter must be the range muscles in hand work over.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:37 pm


lcjohnny wrote:

2) Considering the master cylinder - what diameter has been succesful 17mm or 19mm?


16mm Brembo. My clutch pull went from 12kg to 8kg. The difference is astonishing.









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motor-timothy
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Posts : 435
Join date : 2016-12-20

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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:48 pm

hookah wrote:
Anyone have suggestions for decreasing the clutch pull effort?Cheers.

Daily training Thumbs Up

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Edit: ah beaten by sideshowbob Wink


Last edited by motor-timothy on Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bulldog9
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:11 pm

OK, I'll try again....

A D J U S A B L E L E V E R S...... [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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lcjohnny
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Clutch pull Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:11 pm

beetle wrote:

My clutch pull went from 12kg to 8kg. The difference is astonishing.

Oh dear - mine is 8Kg now with a standard master cylinder and new adjustable levers ........ and i find that too much for comfort  Rolling Eyes - the 5Kg pull on my Monster is more what i am looking for   cyclops
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:54 pm


Well..mine was reduced by 33%. Maybe yours will got down to 5....

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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:38 pm

Mark I am impressed that you could live with a 12Kg clutch pull - that is truly Laverda territory  jocolor

The smaller master cylinder upgrade sounds a very good possibility.
But expensive as both need to be changed (a style imperative) sunny
Between HeL, Braking and Brembo both master cylinder sets come in at between 600 and 1000 gbp

and as i appear to have become retired the number of times i spend £600 on the bike this year will need to be rationed pale  


Out of interest does any  one know the bore of the standard GRiSO clutch master cylinder so i can work out the leverages? Question
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:09 am

Another way of getting lighter clutch pull at the expense of losing lift, is a larger slave cylinder (Guzzi call this a "command cylinder"). My older command cylinder (marked 'Grimeca') and my new later type command cylinder (part number 85220R) both have 25mm diameter pistons.  

Oberon (in UK) provide 30mm diameter clutch slave cylinders at about 90 gbp and that should reduce weight of the pull (and the amount of lift) to 69% of current.

The Oberon CLU-1200 cylinder is same layout and very close in size -
There are three issues
1.the three mounting screws may be 0.3mm too far out however the 6.6mm holes have a diameter clearance of over 0.6mm so that is probably fine.
2.it has one feed port and a bleed so a long banjo bolt is required to put the Guzzi feed and bleed on the same bolt - it looks like there is room...but...
3. oil sealing. The original is mounted directly into the gearbox and traps an 'O' ring between the 42mm boss and a chamfer in the 43.5mm housing.  As CLU-1200 has a 37.9mm boss it will not trap the 'o' ring - so wont seal - it would need a handcut gasket and quite a lot of work to get in there and redo it if it weeps.
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:46 pm

Good info Jon, sounds like you've got close to having a go ? Wink
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch pull   Clutch pull Icon_minitime1Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:57 pm

Yes Paul i will give my wrist a fwew more months Vs the GRiSO clutch and probably go Oberon in summer.

Btw do you remember the diameter of the original master cylinder.
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