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 2006 850 dies on idle

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Wallqvist
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2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:55 am

Thanks, I will check if this other shop can do just that. Regards, Johan
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Wallqvist
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:50 am

Throwing some other variables into the mix here Smile
The problem first occured after I unfortunately had to drive home in heavy rain - could moisture be a factor?
I read about cleaning the stepper motor, and that the motor itself can cause these issues – could this be a factor?
Either way I am now fixing the airbox, leaving the K&N filter in, since it's the one I have, and will have a try tomorrow with the db-killer in. Went for a drive before and it behaved better with the db-killer in. Sounds a lot less fun though Wink

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Pete Roper
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2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:30 pm

The stepper may be part of the issue but I doubt it is the main contributor. The biggest problem is it's been messed about with by someone who doesn't have a clue. Since we don't know what they have done it's not possible for us to offer a solution. All we can do is suggest ways of getting it back to a known baseline so we can make a worthwhile appraisal of its problems and then suggest things to try in search of a resolution of its poor running issues.

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bahamazoo
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2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:25 pm

Wallqvist, the 850 is very similar to my 1200, mechanically speaking...

search thru here and find the link for Lonelec and get a set of computer cables, and also pick up a good manometer online.
then download GuzziDiag - its free (or you can donate 👍🏼) and then you can easily get you're 850 back to where it should be.
you'll be able to save the current 'dynomap' to reinstall later if you wish -although a BeetleMap will likely be a better option.
a couple of spanners and a set of feeler gauges and you're doing the whole service yourself.
and then you'll know exactly what has been done!!



-even Bill does his Razz Razz


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Wallqvist
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2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:32 am

bahamazoo wrote:
Wallqvist, the 850 is very similar to my 1200, mechanically speaking...

search thru here and find the link for Lonelec and get a set of computer cables, and also pick up a good manometer online.
then download GuzziDiag - its free (or you can donate 👍🏼) and then you can easily get you're 850 back to where it should be.
you'll be able to save the current 'dynomap' to reinstall later if you wish -although a BeetleMap will likely be a better option.
a couple of spanners and a set of feeler gauges and you're doing the whole service yourself.
and then you'll know exactly what has been done!!



-even Bill does his  Razz  Razz


Thanks, I was actually thinking about doing just this. Have to get a used PC laptop first Smile I use Mac and I guess it's not compatible.
I did however restore the airbox with some Gorilla glue and right of the bat, it's a lot better. No stalling from when i rev it and then let it go.
A throttle sync next week might do the trick. Thanks again, I'm very grateful for your time.
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beetle
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2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:37 am


GuzziDiag is MacOS compatible. It simply depends which version of MacOS you're running.



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Wallqvist
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:44 am

beetle wrote:

GuzziDiag is MacOS compatible. It simply depends which version of MacOS you're running.



Great! I run the latest always as I use it for work.
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Wallqvist
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:46 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Don't know if this works but here is the sheet from the dynorun. Far left is with hacked airbox and map and a bit to the right is with only KN and Termi.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:03 am

Wallqvist wrote:

Great! I run the latest always as I use it for work.



The latest version of GuzziDiag won't work with 10.15.4 "Catalina".

You can download the previous version (which does work), from my Dropbox: LINKY





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Wallqvist
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2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:11 am

Thank you! Scuse me for sounding like total newbie here, but what else do I need to get? I've only worked with carb before, and on Triumphs, so this is new Smile
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:16 am


Have a read of this thread:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



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PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:57 am

This is a godsend! Looking forward to sinking my teeth into this. So do I not need a manometer at all then?Ordered just now from Lonelec.
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Pete Roper
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2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:26 am

No, you need a manometer.

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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:48 am


Another "howto" thread:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]








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Wallqvist
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:06 am

Maybe a stupid question but would it work if I get the throttle bodies balanced at the shop and then do the rest at home? Only asking to refrain from pissin off the neighbours with too much noise from my garage Smile Is there a specific mapping of yours that I should use with the Termi and K&N - stock airbox. And - how can I donate for your help?
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eeyore
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:20 pm

The right shop for the job will be able to balance the TB’s and reset the the TPS.
The shop that doesn’t have the equipment or knowledge to do any part will more than likely fu*k the job up.
A shop that has the equipment is still no guarantee.
Alternatively let my 9 year old grandson loose on your bike with granddads tools. He will definitely screw the job up (+every other screw, nut and bolt he finds) but at least you will know it’s knackered and his labour rates are reasonable.

If you do the work yourself you are in control of any further changes. A morgan type manometer is going cost about the same as the labour to balance the TB’s.

Very important that you record your findings and note any changes you make.
Air box lid and paper filter carry minimal costs £15 + £9 in the UK for genuine parts - possibly less than messing with gorilla glue. Trying to establish a datum point with unnecessary variables makes things impossible.

Valve check - engine cold. Read up on removing the plug wires.
Engine up to operating temp.
TPS check.
TB high speed balance.
TPS check.
TB low speed balance.

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Street
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2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:33 pm

More evidence of the power of the GRiSO Ghetto! Stick with it, Johan, the good folks of this forum will help you to set things straight.

Pete (Street)

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Wallqvist
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:47 pm

eeyore wrote:
The right shop for the job will be able to balance the TB’s and reset the the TPS.
The shop that doesn’t have the equipment or knowledge to do any part will more than likely fu*k the job up.
A shop that has the equipment is still no guarantee.
Alternatively let my 9 year old grandson loose on your bike with granddads tools. He will definitely screw the job up (+every other screw, nut and bolt he finds) but at least you will know it’s knackered and his labour rates are reasonable.

If you do the work yourself you are in control of any further changes. A morgan type manometer is going cost about the same as the labour to balance the TB’s.

Very important that you record your findings and note any changes you make.
Air box lid and paper filter carry minimal costs £15 + £9 in the UK for genuine parts - possibly less than messing with gorilla glue. Trying to establish a datum point with unnecessary variables makes things impossible.

Valve check - engine cold. Read up on removing the plug wires.
Engine up to operating temp.
TPS check.
TB high speed balance.
TPS check.
TB low speed balance.

I'm sure they will, but my point was just not having to run the bike for too long in the garage Wink
I don't mind doing the work myself, on the contrary.
Cheers, Johan
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kiwi dave
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2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:08 pm

Wallqvist wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Don't know if this works but here is the sheet from the dynorun. Far left is with hacked airbox and map and a bit to the right is with only KN and Termi.

Is that a genuine reading?  Not try to be offensive, but genuine torque and horsepower graphs always cross each other at 5252 revs/min.  Something seems amiss here.
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eeyore
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2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:27 pm

kiwi dave wrote:
Wallqvist wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Don't know if this works but here is the sheet from the dynorun. Far left is with hacked airbox and map and a bit to the right is with only KN and Termi.

Is that a genuine reading?  Not try to be offensive, but genuine torque and horsepower graphs always cross each other at 5252 revs/min.  Something seems amiss here.

Convert the torque from Nm to ft-lb
62 Nm is around 46 ft-lb.
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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:49 pm

eeyore wrote:

Convert the torque from Nm to ft-lb
62 Nm is around 46 ft-lb.

Going even further out on a limb here.

I don't think it matters what the units used are. the graphs should still cross at 5252 revs/min.
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eeyore
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2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:35 pm

kiwi dave wrote:
eeyore wrote:

Convert the torque from Nm to ft-lb
62 Nm is around 46 ft-lb.

Going even further out on a limb here.

I don't think it matters what the units used are. the graphs should still cross at 5252 revs/min.

If using the same scale, with BHP, torque needs to be ft-lb.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:17 pm


eeyore is correct. It's because they've mixed HP with Nm. Imperial & SI units don't mix.




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Wallqvist
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:11 pm

So the valves were off by 0.05 on both inlet and exhaust, both cylinders. Hadn't been checked for more than 10000 kilometers from what I could see in the book. Will go for a ride tomorrrow if summer comes back over here.
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eeyore
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PostSubject: Re: 2006 850 dies on idle   2006 850 dies on idle - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:48 pm

What clearance did you find and what did you set at?
The handbook states a dead number with no upper or lower limit. Some specialists set both inlet / outlet with the same clearance. I have also read that a slightly bigger gap is preferred by some.
Valve adjustment changes the engine breathing - suck & blow.
TB balance should follow after adjusting valve clearance.
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