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 high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve

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GHIGGS
Montanarolo
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GHIGGS

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high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Empty
PostSubject: high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve   high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Icon_minitime1Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:07 pm

Hi Everyone, I have problem with high idle 2000 RPM after beetle map installed. sorry for rambling!!

currently 2000 KM on bike, stock MAP idle 1100 RPM, and prior to MAP in installed: new spark plugs, cleaned air filter, new crankcase/gearbox/transmission oils. valves 0.1, 0.15, head bolts checked.

After I installed beetle MAP I reset TPS and Auto Learning.

now fuel consumption has doubled due to idling at 2000RPM , so I adjusted CO TRIM for - 5, -10, -25 idle started oscillating  2000 to 2500RPM. it never when down why?

this took around 30 minutes to get bike warm 60 deg c and ready to adjust CO trim, the bike reached 90deg c,  oil light went on then I shut bike off. Then then starter stopped working.
While I was waiting for bike to cool down I performed another TPS, and auto learning reset.
4 hours later starter still too hot with hammer will try tomorrow morning with bigger hammer to get starter working, fixing starter easy for me. I have no concerns rere it. it the idle I need help with.

Because bike only has 2000KM on it can I rule out synchronization of throttle bodies?

Is this with correct way to adjust CO TRIM negative due to too much fuel being delivered?

any other suggestions? Bike was running perfectly prior to this

Thanks very Much!!

Gordon, still in love with my GRiSO !!!
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Pete Roper
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high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Empty
PostSubject: Re: high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve   high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Icon_minitime1Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:47 pm

Firstly, simply because the bike has low Kms doesn't mean that the TB's haven't been buggered about with and they are rarely right ex-factory, especially on the early models.

Is the paint still intact on the throttle stop screw? Have you balanced the TB's?
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paulbrice
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high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Empty
PostSubject: Re: high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve   high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Icon_minitime1Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:04 am

1 minute job: Is it the right map for your model ?
2 minutes job: Switch back to old map & run it (assuming it was running fine before)
Longer: What Pete said - air bleeds, TBs balance & check all the other things you changed
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Bulldog9
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high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Empty
PostSubject: Re: high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve   high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Icon_minitime1Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:38 pm

paulbrice wrote:
1 minute job: Is it the right map for your model ?
2 minutes job: Switch back to old map & run it (assuming it was running fine before)
Longer: What Pete said - air bleeds, TBs balance & check all the other things you changed

+1
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GHIGGS
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high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Empty
PostSubject: Re: high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve   high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Icon_minitime1Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:21 pm

I think I had correct version MAP. Beetle advised me to roll throttle open then close then to a TPS reset. This was the problem!! I'm now idling at 1100. He also let me know move the the CO trim back to zero. If this wasn't fixed to reload his MAP.
Thanks for all your advice: cheers: Very Happy
Synchronization of throttle bodies, is this time, mileage, or if it's not broken don't mess with them?
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Pete Roper
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high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Empty
PostSubject: Re: high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve   high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Icon_minitime1Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:09 pm

They didn't tend to come from the factory set up very well, especially on the early models. Also, since the valve clearances tend to be all over the place on a new bike, if the shop set them properly when they did the 'Tune-up' this will throw the balance out.

While in theory the TB's shouldn't go out of adjustment the fact is that every time the valves are serviced or even just over time in service, things will change slightly altering the valve timing slightly and therefore creating small differences in the engine's breathing. That's why we always check balance after doing the valves at a 10,000km service. It doesn't take long, it's not dificult, (As long as you have the tools to do it.) and it will make a noticeable difference to the smoothness of the motor.

It might be worth asking the shop if they re-set the valves and balanced the TB's? If they say no because it wasn't necessary one has to wonder what they think a 'Tune-up' involves? It would seem to me to suggest it took them four hours to change the oils and maybe the oil filter......
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GHIGGS
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high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Empty
PostSubject: Re: high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve   high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Icon_minitime1Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:06 am

I have skills to change oils, filters, plugs myself and have a local independent shop adjust valves and torque heads this was an hours labor. I was following the 1K break-in service. Then at the 10K interval I will be sure to add throttle body synchronization to valves for my independent shop. Pete thanks again for your advice!!
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Pete Roper
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high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Empty
PostSubject: Re: high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve   high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Icon_minitime1Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:30 pm

Just make absolutely sure your independent bloke understands how the W5AM system works on a Guzzi and he doesn't touch the throttle stop screw or linkage rod.
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Bulldog9
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high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Empty
PostSubject: Re: high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve   high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Icon_minitime1Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:14 am

GHIGGS wrote:
I think I had correct version MAP. Beetle advised me to roll throttle open then close then to a TPS reset. This was the problem!! I'm now idling at 1100. He also let me know move the the CO trim back to zero. If this wasn't fixed to reload his MAP.
Thanks for all your advice: cheers:  Very Happy
Synchronization of throttle bodies, is this time, mileage, or if it's not broken don't mess with them?

Glad it worked out.

Overkill perhaps, but at every valve adjust (6K) I do the following.
- Adjust valves
- Replace Plugs
- Reset Learning parameters: non running actor
- Reset TPS: non running actor
- Run Stepper motor: running actor
- Check TB balance (only needed to set once so far)

I also tend to change the oil & air filters, and trans/rear diff oil every 12K miles.

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GHIGGS
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high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Empty
PostSubject: Re: high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve   high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Icon_minitime1Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:32 am

update after a long ride idle was back at 2000 rpm. I reinstalled Marks MAP and problem persisted. I installed the OEM MAP now this stays at 1100 95% of the time and 5% 1800. Mark let me know he thinks the idle stepper motor is partially blocked with oil/dirt squirt carb cleaner to get it moving again. He let me know look for it on left side it exits front of air box. I am doing this next.

bulldog interesting about running stepper motor running actor, this sounds like it exercised? I notice 3 stepper motor options in guzidiag (idle stepper base, break, controller) which one do you use? Interesting you are saying reset TPS, autolearning stepper motor TB balance twice as often as you change fluids. Throttle stop screws still have green paint, if my independent guy can do TB balance I will as dealer.
I just noticed there is a recall for us on our fuel system, anyone had this work done?
thanks everyone for your invaluable support!!
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Bulldog9
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high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Empty
PostSubject: Re: high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve   high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Icon_minitime1Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:44 am

GHIGGS wrote:
update after a long ride idle was back at 2000 rpm. I reinstalled Marks MAP and problem persisted. I installed the OEM MAP now this stays at 1100 95% of the time and 5% 1800. Mark let me know he thinks the idle stepper motor is partially blocked with oil/dirt squirt carb cleaner to get it moving again. He let me know look for it on left side it exits front of air box. I am doing this next.

bulldog interesting about running stepper motor running actor, this sounds like it exercised? I notice 3 stepper motor options in guzidiag (idle stepper base, break, controller) which one do you use? Interesting you are saying reset TPS, autolearning stepper motor TB balance twice as often as you change fluids. Throttle stop screws still have green paint, if my independent guy can do TB balance I will as dealer.
I just noticed there is a recall for us on our fuel system, anyone had this work done?
thanks everyone for your invaluable support!!

Going off memory, in the actor 'engine running' menu I select stepper and start. You can hear the idle increase and decrease a couple hundred RPM.  I don't remember there being 3 separate stepper 'actors'. I've not nor will I mess with any of the inkage screws on the TB's just balance with the air bleeds on the bottom of the TB's.

As for what I do in servicing, I do the TPS and Learning parameter resets, stepper, check/clear codes, new plugs, check TB balance with every valve adjust and oil change (6K miles)  I change the oil/air filter and brake, trans and diff fluids every 12K miles or every other oil change.

By no means an expert, but if I were in your situation, I would be doing the following.
1. Check/test/clean the IAC (stepper motor) to make sure it is working properly.
2. Check/test/clean the TPS, make sure it is mounted properly, and throttle cables and system operates smoothly returning to full stop position.
3. Close both air bleeds in the bottom of the TB's and do a fresh TB Balance
4. Block off the air nipples in each TB to ensure you arent having problems with the evap system. I like to remove the evap system and connect the air nipples across the TB's, this helps to balance the intake charge much the same way a cross over does in the exhaust, or to block off the ports with a bolt, or leave the system in place and shove a ball bearing in the line blocking the air to the port.

Never heard of a fuel system recall.
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GHIGGS
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high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Empty
PostSubject: Re: high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve   high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Icon_minitime1Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:12 pm

recall link, sorry should have included it when asked question:
Summary list of models:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
2006/7/12/13 GRiSO:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I understand balance air bleeds at bottom TBs don't mess with screws or linkages, lucky I still have green paint on !!
I will adopt your serving procedures and give the stepper exercise a try.
thanks again!!
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Pete Roper
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high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Empty
PostSubject: Re: high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve   high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Icon_minitime1Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:14 pm

To achieve the high speed balance you need to use the screw that controls the linkage rod bell crank.
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dlpannebakker
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high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Empty
PostSubject: Is your stepper motor still plugged into the system? If it is, I’d say that’s your problem. Take it outbox the loop but you must keep it connected electronically.   high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Icon_minitime1Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:52 pm

GHIGGS wrote:
Hi Everyone, I have problem with high idle 2000 RPM after beetle map installed. sorry for rambling!!

currently 2000 KM on bike, stock MAP idle 1100 RPM, and prior to MAP in installed: new spark plugs, cleaned air filter, new crankcase/gearbox/transmission oils. valves 0.1, 0.15, head bolts checked.

After I installed beetle MAP I reset TPS and Auto Learning.

now fuel consumption has doubled due to idling at 2000RPM , so I adjusted CO TRIM for - 5, -10, -25 idle started oscillating  2000 to 2500RPM. it never when down why?

this took around 30 minutes to get bike warm 60 deg c and ready to adjust CO trim, the bike reached 90deg c,  oil light went on then I shut bike off. Then then starter stopped working.
While I was waiting for bike to cool down I performed another TPS, and auto learning reset.
4 hours later starter still too hot with hammer will try tomorrow morning with bigger hammer to get starter working, fixing starter easy for me. I have no concerns rere it. it the idle I need help with.

Because bike only has 2000KM on it can I rule out synchronization of throttle bodies?

Is this with correct way to adjust CO TRIM negative due to too much fuel being delivered?

any other suggestions? Bike was running perfectly prior to this

Thanks very Much!!

Gordon, still in love with my GRiSO !!!
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Bulldog9
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high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Empty
PostSubject: Re: high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve   high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Icon_minitime1Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:45 am

Pete Roper wrote:
To achieve the high speed balance you need to use the screw that controls the linkage rod bell crank.

DUH, yes of course you are right. I havent had to correct the balance in 4 years, so I forgot.
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dlpannebakker
Carlotto
Carlotto
dlpannebakker

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high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Empty
PostSubject: Re: high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve   high idle after Beetle map installed on my 1100 2valve Icon_minitime1Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:02 am

The GRiSO is known for the stepper motor to increase the idle speed up to 3K rpm. If you didn’t take it out of the loop I’d do that but do not unplug it from the electrical lead. Simple way of doing it. You could plug the three vacuum nipples, you could use vacuum hose to make a loop for two vacuum nipples or a T may be used to basically shut off the vacuum to the throttle bodies. There are two hoses going to a puke tank. Run a vacuum hose from the exit of the puke tank to both throttle bodies. This removes vacuum pressure inside the engine & burns off the blow by. In race engines there is either a hose running from the valve covers to either a vacuum pump which sucks the pressure build up from blow by & the rotating assembly into a puke tank or run hoses with fitting into the exhaust header. The draws the pressure & burns off any oil.
I decided to write this in case you wish to take the stepper motor out of the series. Sure the engine will idle rough until heat is built up in the cylinders the idle will be at 1000-1100 rpm. What I had described is what I had done to my 06 GRiSO.
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