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 1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map

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Pete Roper
Randy
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Randy
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PostSubject: 1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map   1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map Icon_minitime1Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:53 am

What's the flow rate and nozzle configuration on the stock IWP 162 injectors? 4.3 g/s?

I swapped in the Beetle map but I've really had to crank the CO up to keep it from stumbling. Significant difference in power and acceleration but feels a bit peaky.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map   1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map Icon_minitime1Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:54 am

Did you clear the trims after uploading the map? Did you tune it before the map upload?
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: 1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map   1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map Icon_minitime1Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:14 am

Also worth cleaning the inlet air temp sensor

On the 1200 it is at the right front of the airbox.

 It gets insulated with muck and gives a false reading.
Before i cleaned mine i needed -15 co trim & now -5

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Randy
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PostSubject: Re: 1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map   1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map Icon_minitime1Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:04 am

Pete Roper wrote:
Did you clear the trims after uploading the map? Did you tune it before the map upload?

Yup yup yup.

Throttle bodies balanced, exhaust system tightened up, new plugs, valve clearances set, TPS set, learning parameters reset (although that shouldn't make a diff with Beetle map, it doesn't used the feedback loop, correct?).
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PostSubject: Re: 1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map   1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map Icon_minitime1Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:51 pm

Randy wrote:

learning parameters reset (although that shouldn't make a diff with Beetle map, it doesn't used the feedback loop, correct?).


It does make a difference. If there's trims in the ECU RAM, it will use them. That's why we reset them.


What exhaust?



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Randy
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PostSubject: Re: 1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map   1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map Icon_minitime1Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:25 am

beetle wrote:
Randy wrote:

learning parameters reset (although that shouldn't make a diff with Beetle map, it doesn't used the feedback loop, correct?).


It does make a difference. If there's trims in the ECU RAM, it will use them. That's why we reset them.


What exhaust?



Stock exhaust. Any advantage to possibly a higher rate injector or different spray pattern if I want to experiment a bit? A higher rate injector would have a denser, shorter shot, wonder if that is a problem or an advantage?

So the ECU RAM trims are set to zero with a reset so they won't stack on top of your trims and offset them? Pardon all the questions, I'm an engineer so I'm a technical nerd.

Also, 1100 tappet setting are still 4 and 6 thousandths, not 6 and 8 like for the 1200?
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PostSubject: Re: 1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map   1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map Icon_minitime1Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:01 pm


Randy wrote:

Stock exhaust. Any advantage to possibly a higher rate injector or different spray pattern if I want to experiment a bit? A higher rate injector would have a denser, shorter shot, wonder if that is a problem or an advantage?



The basic operation of the map uses injector pulse widths. Changing the injectors to a higher rating without rebuilding the map results in a rich condition. Very rich, in some cases. For example, if you swapped them out for IWP189's from an 8V, which has a rate of 5.8 g/s, and didn't adjust the pulse width, you have ~25% increase per pulse.

There is a scalar in the map for adjusting the flow rate of the injector, however I think it's just used to calculate fuel consumption. I don't think it has any affect on the real-time pulse.




Quote :

So the ECU RAM trims are set to zero with a reset so they won't stack on top of your trims and offset them? Pardon all the questions, I'm an engineer so I'm a technical nerd.


That's correct. There's a few professional nerds on the forum.  cheers



Quote :

Also, 1100 tappet setting are still 4 and 6 thousandths, not 6 and 8 like for the 1200?



4 & 6 thou is correct for the 1100 & 1200. The 6 & 8 thou setting for the 1200 is an aberration resulting from the flat tappet fiasco.



If the bike isn't running quite right, I'm happy to tweak the map from your feedback.





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Randy
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PostSubject: Re: 1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map   1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map Icon_minitime1Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:25 pm

beetle wrote:



There is a scalar in the map for adjusting the flow rate of the injector, however I think it's just used to calculate fuel consumption. I don't think it has any affect on the real-time pulse.



The CO setting adjusts the pulse width so a lower setting there would adjust for a higher flow rate injector? Any advantages/disadvantages to narrower or wider pulse widths injecting the same quantity of fuel? Part of the reason I started on all this is because I had to adjust the CO setting from around 0 to +20 to get it to run. Seemed a bit odd after I'd made sure there was no leaks and everything was in tune.

beetle wrote:



If the bike isn't running quite right, I'm happy to tweak the map from your feedback.



Thanks, going to make sure I've double checked everything first and that there's nothing else going on. I've been pleased so far with the performance improvements.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map   1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map Icon_minitime1Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:12 pm


A value of +/-1 (one) changes the real-time pulse width by 100uS. In your case, +20 has added 2000uS to each real-time pulse across the RPM range. Max CO is +/- 128, so theoretically it might be possible to replace the injectors with higher flow units and reduce the CO.

That kind of project interests me!




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jtdesign
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PostSubject: Re: 1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map   1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:25 pm

From disassembling the 2230 software code, the fuel table values are actually in fuel mass per injection. The number is 250 times the mass of fuel in mg. The CO trim value adds or subtracts 20/250 mg per step up to 3000 rpm, whereafter the effect tapers off so that at 6000 rpm there is only 10/250 mg per step. As Beetle says the max CO trim value is +/- 128.
There is, however, an injector calibration value at location $4C000 which has the injector flow rate in ms per gram (typically value = 172 for the 8V injectors). This is followed by a table of injector opening times vs battery voltage - 16 entries with values in 2us units. The table value is added on to the calculated fuel injection time depending on the current battery voltage the ECU senses. The resolution of the injector timing system is 2us.
Fitting different flow injectors should only require the calibration value to be altered, but a completely different type of injector would need a new battery voltage correction table as well.

John.

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Randy
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PostSubject: Re: 1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map   1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:03 am

The MotionPro carb sticks suck. Just sayin'.
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GuzziSteve
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PostSubject: Re: 1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map   1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:29 am

Randy wrote:
The MotionPro carb sticks suck. Just sayin'.

Yea, they use coolant in tubes & calibrate to ea other 1st. Then you start bike and it disappears into the manifolds. JUNK CRAP waste of money.
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Randy
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PostSubject: Re: 1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map   1100 stock injector flow rate, Beetle map Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:37 pm

GuzziSteve wrote:
Randy wrote:
The MotionPro carb sticks suck. Just sayin'.

Yea, they use coolant in tubes & calibrate to ea other 1st. Then you start bike and it disappears into the manifolds. JUNK CRAP waste of money.  

I have one of their mercury ones also, worked nice but good luck finding mercury to top it off. The blue fluid thing is garbage.

Carbtune Pro 4 on the way.
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