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 Spotting a false mileage

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Evilgarfield
Carlotto
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PostSubject: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:10 pm

Hello
I'm in the market for a GRiSO. I found one from 2006 with only 4400km which is both great and suspicious. Since I know that GRiSO (grisi?) Can have dash issues in wondering if that machine could in reality have many more km under its belt but a dash change 4400km ago reset it to 0 hence the low mileage.

I only saw pictures of the bike and it looks in good state. I'm going to test ride it next week.
Is there a way to spot a dash change and the real mileage of the bike? Are there parts I should look at to get that info? Is there a serial number in the dash that I could compare to the frame number or the service book to make sure it's the original?

Thanks
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:14 pm

No, not really. Just look for general wear and tear. If it’s a really early one check the CARC number and make sure it’s not subject to a recall.

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Evilgarfield
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:30 pm

Ok thanks
Any issues of having a bike that old with low mileage?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:45 am

Long periods of inactivity can be problematic but really if it's been stored well and periodically started it will probably be fine. The bevelbox issue is the elephant in the corner but if you want a GRiSO just get the dodgy bearing replaced and you'll be good to go.

All the CARC bikes are pretty bulletproof with the few exceptions often mentioned here. I'd be more worried about the TB's having been monstered than the mileage. You have to remember it's a fifteen year old motorbike. Whatever it's history it isn't 'New'.

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Evilgarfield
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:19 am

Thanks for the answers.
Sorry if I'm slow but I'm new to all this. I looked around and found some of your posts (posts on this forum: 2006-GRiSO-1100-transmission-problem and carc-oil-seal) on CARC issues and bevel box. I guess that's what you are referring to when talking about the bevelbox issue?
To be clear, do you advise me to change both the bearing AND the seal even if the  bike number is not on the recall list (I found on guzzitech: cardan-carc-recall-info) ? The bike looks very pristine (motorradhandel-schweiz.ch/detail/detail.cfm?id=795880&form_kundennr=787&auswahl=1),  it would be a shame to have pay the first repair just after buying the bike from the dealer.

When you say "TB's having been monstered" are you still talking about the same issue described above?

Thanks again for your time, greatly appreciated.

PS: sorry for the formatting, I'm not allowed to post links
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:52 am

Please give me a few hours,I'm about to go to bed, but no, the throttle body issues are something entirely different and not a manufacturing fault but one of the bike having been messed about with by people who don't know what they are doing...

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Evilgarfield
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:04 am

Ah I though that TB meant transmission bearing.
Don't worry about that. Just go to sleep, it can wait.
Since the handler owning the bike does not want to do a test ride before rain has washed up the salt from the roads I imagine he must have taken care of that but I'd like to be able to verify it.

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Kiwi_Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:14 am

Wouldn't it still be on the original rubber at 4400?
At least if you found it that way it would confirm the low milage.
Then again what tires were fitted from the factory?

Brake pads as well should still be fairly unworn.

Of course the owner might have changed rubber early but a few questions along that line may shed more light.


Last edited by Kiwi_Roy on Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:20 am; edited 1 time in total

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:18 am

If I remember correctly some sort of horrible fucking Metzler. If they're still on it they won't of improved with age.......

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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:44 am

At that age there should be at least 4 technical inspections and stamps (with mileage) ? ...unless it's been declared off road (like in UK).

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Evilgarfield
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:00 am

Good point with the technical inspections.
The rubber is new and as I said the bike seems very well tended for. I will have a look at the pads.
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I contact the dealer for the CARC number but he told me that the GRiSO were not concerned by that issue, only the Breva and that he would have to remove the wheel to get the number of the drive assmebly. Would the frame number be enough to determine if the was a vehicle subject to a recall?
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OldMojo
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:59 am

The pipes certainly look clean for a 15 year old bike.

Paint dab on the dipstick? was that a thing?
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Evilgarfield
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:05 pm

Ok I got the frame number from the dealer (ZGULS00076M113160) and according to the recall campaigns found in Guzzi tech it seems that the model is not affected.

Now I've been browsing this forum quite a bit and it seems there are quite a bit of problems with the GRiSO (preload on the shaft drive, fuel pump hose , starter motor, etc...). By getting a GRiSO am I just playing the Russian roulette to know if I have a model that will fail me? Or is it the same with all bikes and the impression is exacerbated by me browsing a tech problem forum?
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:18 pm

Problems affect all makes and models. Guzzis are no different but theirs are generally slightly different to everyone else.

My bike has 145,000 km - still on the original fuel filter/hose - starter motor is simple to fix and has been an occasional issue for many years (something about Italian Electrics).

Generally, these are little problems and one sorted, no longer are issues. Pete has oft quoted that Guzzis, once sorted are reliable as anvils. You are not playing Russian Roulette.

BTW welcome

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:37 pm

Quote :


I contact the dealer for the CARC number but he told me that the GRiSO were not concerned by that issue, only the Breva and that he would have to remove the wheel to get the number of the drive assmebly. Would the frame number be enough to determine if the was a vehicle subject to a recall?


Sorry, wrong. Both Breva and GRiSO were affected and you don't have to remove the rear wheel.

The VIN# also doesn't tell the whole story and Guzzi's records are notoriously rubbery. You need to check the number on the bevelbox. It's under the boot which can be peeled up and viewed from the LH side if the bike through the wheel.
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Steak
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:24 pm

I would never, in any case, call the GRiSO a problematic motorcycle.  Especially the two valve version you are considering. That bike looks showroom new in the pictures...

Those pictures bring back memories as almost every "2nd+" year GRiSOs here in the US had non-color matched CARC units as the bevel box started coming in a slightly darker shade.  I think they were all Breva bevel boxes, identical mechanically but a slightly darker color than those on the first run of GRiSOs.

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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Street
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:26 pm

It looks absolutely pristine to me. Of course, that doesn't prove anything, but it is pretty impressive looking.
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LBC Tenni
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:17 pm

In the pictures I see that the owner has switched to dome nuts for securing the exhaust pipes. This is a problem area for corrosion. Why didn’t I think of that? I’m making a note for my next trip to the hardware store. It looks like a garage queen with a caring owner to me.
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Evilgarfield
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:39 pm

Pete Roper wrote:


Sorry, wrong. Both Breva and GRiSO were affected and you don't have to remove the rear wheel.

The VIN# also doesn't tell the whole story and Guzzi's records are notoriously rubbery. You need to check the number on the bevelbox. It's under the boot which can be peeled up and viewed from the LH side if the bike through the wheel.


Ah bummer!
I'm gonna check if the dealer is able to knee down to check the number out or if he's too old for that Smile

Just up be clear, if the carc number ends up being on the list, I'm not sure Guzzi will still honour the recall after 15 years. Is it possible to only change the bearing and the seal or is the problem more complicated than that?
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Evilgarfield
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:03 am

Steak wrote:
I would never, in any case, call the GRiSO a problematic motorcycle.  Especially the two valve version you are considering.  That bike looks showroom new in the pictures...

Those pictures bring back memories as almost every "2nd+" year GRiSOs here in the US had non-color matched CARC units as the bevel box started coming in a slightly darker shade.  I think they were all Breva bevel boxes, identical mechanically but a slightly darker color than those on the first run of GRiSOs.

Do you mean that they were missmatched because the original one was recalled and they got a darker one? If so maybe I'm lucky and the darker CARC on this bike is not subject to a recall!
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:55 am

Evilgarfield wrote:


Ah bummer!
I'm gonna check if the dealer is able to knee down to check the number out or if he's too old for that Smile

Just up be clear, if the carc number ends up being on the list, I'm not sure Guzzi will still honour the recall after 15 years. Is it possible to only change the bearing and the seal or is the problem more complicated than that?

Yup, entirely possible. Bearing? Get one of the 19 ball FAG ones 61917-C3 and the correct, directional, seal in Viton. From memory it's an 85x115x8 but you can use a x10 without issue. The important thing is it is Viton. I'll check that size, or you can, for the seal.

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Evilgarfield
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:04 am

Thanks a lot. I will go for the test ride anyways... I cant let that GRiSO go!

If it turns out that the seal/bearing are problematic I might come back for more help. I found the bearing and I'm pretty sure I have located the seal at MG cycle (PART NUMBER: 90408511). Ideally I would find one in europe but let's wait if it's even needed before freaking out Smile

Thanks a lot for your help everyone. I'll keep you updated
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:26 am

vehicles with unusually low mileages frequently have "insoluble problems".

So if one of the GRiSO's common and fixable problems like occasoinal starting or oil in the airbox is depressing the mileage - it could be a bargain.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:35 am

Evilgarfield wrote:
Thanks a lot. I will go for the test ride anyways... I cant let that GRiSO go!

If it turns out that the seal/bearing are problematic I might come back for more help. I found the bearing and I'm pretty sure I have located the seal at MG cycle (PART NUMBER: 90408511). Ideally I would find one in europe but let's wait if it's even needed before freaking out Smile

Thanks a lot for your help everyone. I'll keep you updated

Why the hell buy a seal from the US? You should be able to find it on line as a generic part, if you can't just buy one from TLM in Holland or any of the other Euro dealers. Stein Dinse, Agostinis, whoever. If you insist on making things hard I'll sell you one! Laughing
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Evilgarfield
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:45 am

lcjohnny wrote:
vehicles with unusually low mileages frequently have "insoluble problems".

So if one of the GRiSO's common and fixable problems like occasoinal starting or oil in the airbox is depressing the mileage - it could be a bargain.

Yes that's exactly why I was suspicious and since I'm new to Guzzis I wanted to know what these insoluble problems could be and how to catch them before buying the bike!

Pete Roper wrote:
Why the hell buy a seal from the US? You should be able to find it on line as a generic part, if you can't just buy one from TLM in Holland or any of the other Euro dealers. Stein Dinse, Agostinis, whoever. If you insist on making things hard I'll sell you one! Laughing

Because I don't know all the possible retailers since I never owned a Guzzi before. I just made a 30s search to check the prices and make sure I could find them. Now if the bike happens to be problematic it will be time to do a more throughout search. Smile

BTW Pete I found your tutorial on guzzitech regarding the bearing replacement. I really hope I don't have to do it because I do not have access to a press to push the CARC mechanism out of the LF case :s
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