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 Spotting a false mileage

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Evilgarfield
Grignapoco
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Evilgarfield

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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:49 am

Well I got the numbers from the dealer. Apparently there are two written on the CARC body:

642377

009065

Correct my if I'm wrong but this clears out the bearing issue Thumbs Up
So now, onto test ride and maybe I'll be riding a GRiSO in a week's time!

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Bulldog9
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:09 pm

OldMojo wrote:
The pipes certainly look clean for a 15 year old bike.

Paint dab on the dipstick? was that a thing?

The 4V is my favorite GRiSO. This looks very clean and well cared for. I have 23K on mine (if I remember correctly) no issues, not even the startus interuptus. I also have a mechanically similar 4V 1200 Sport with close to 80K miles.  Care for them they will care for you.

Take the time to set up the suspension and tire pressures correctly. She can feel like a fat pig and beat the snot out of you or a gymnast and smooth based on a bad setup.

You've found one of the best Guzzi sites, and THE best place for GRiSO's. Welcome!
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Holger
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:35 am

Hello, I think you are worrying too much.

The red GRiSO in the pictures looks like a picture book.
If the price is within reason, I would buy it immediately.
A GRiSO 1100 has almost no unusual problems.
If the Guzzi dealer checks the system, he will see if there have been any recalls and if they have been dealt with.
Moreover, I know used vehicles from Switzerland that were almost always immaculate.
My GRiSO 1100 is from 2007 and had run around 16,000 km.
I bought it after photos and a detailed enquiry via email and had it brought to me by a haulage company. Because it was in Corona and about 700 km away.
Great, immaculate condition.
With yours, you should change the oil and oil filter immediately and, depending on the age, new tyres front and rear and then bring it in for servicing at the normal inspection due date.
You will experience the condition of the battery or just put in a new one.

Greetings
Holger

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usedtobefast
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usedtobefast

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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:34 am

How do you plan to use the bike?  Go out on 1-3 hour rides?  Or take off on 10 day excursions?  Just thinking, let's say there is a 2% chance some issue will happen with that bike ... if you are on a 1-3 hour ride, then it really isn't that big a deal.  But if you are on day 5 of a 10 day trip, it is much more of a problem.  And if you have an issue, a post on here will get you a plethora of responses with tips/hints/suggestions/encouragement.

Also, on the Throttle Body thing ... if the bike runs great, then it hasn't been messed up.  If the bike runs like crap and the dealer is saying "it just need to be ridden some", then it might have been messed with.  The TB "problem" is it is possible to adjust the wrong thing ... so a person trying to do a sync or trying to "tune" their GRiSO, might have tried adjusting the wrong part of that system ... once that has been done, it seems there are about 4-5 people on the planet that can sort it out.  Smile  You can search on "sacred screw" to read all about it.
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Evilgarfield
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:21 am

Thank you guys for your help!
I'm pretty convinced that I will end up buying it. I just have to convince the maniac dealer that it rained enough to clear the salt from the roads and that I can test ride it..... Then it's just a matter of getting the paperwork done and bringing it home Smile

I will mostly do 1-3h rides around my place. Longer trips are not excluded but these would happen very rarely because I have a family and I don't want riding my bike to take family time away, at least for now. You are right, if I have any issue, this should not be a big deal since I wont be half way across europe.

Regarding the TB issue, it seems that the LH side screw still has a dab of yellow paint that looks untouched. This is encouraging but as far as I undersood the sacred screw is not visible on the picture. I will have to check it once I see the bike in person if the throttle behaves strangely.
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Evilgarfield
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:25 am

So I just tried it. Is runs very well.
There is a single issue. When I'm in neutral and give no throttle, there is a clunking sound from the clutch area. The seller tells me that the Clutch plates had play  when not loaded (clutch lever released) in the early versions but that has no impact and does not wear down more.
There is apparently a notice #11-2006 from Guzzi stating that it is not an issue other than the noise.

Any input on that?

PS: the sacred screw has not been fiddle with and still has an intact dab of yellow paint
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Steak
L'Innominato
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:07 pm

That is a Guzzi sound.

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:19 pm

Nah, not on the early CARC six speeders. The rattle is caused by the Bellville washer stack collapsing in the face cam shock absorber on the input shaft. It requires splitting the box to fix. Guzzi claim it does no harm. I say Guzzi just didn't want to pay for umpteen gearbox removals.

I've done a few, the *Fix* sometimes doesn't. Be aware.
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Evilgarfield
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:38 pm

Well the issue 11-2006 apparently asked the dealers to do the fix under warranty. This one apparently didn't.
Pete are you saying that it is harmful? or if I can live with the noise, then I shouldn't bother doing the fix since it doesn't always solve the issue and is expensive? Should I not get the bike?
The rest of the bike is perfect.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:16 pm

If it were mine I wouldn't be happy if I didn't fix it. My main concern would be that if the Bellville washer stack collapsed far enough the half moon collets that retain the washer stack cap could get spat out. After that everything goes to hell in a hand basket very, very quickly.
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Evilgarfield
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:30 pm

Ok then the question is how likely something like is going to happen? Did you ever hear of such an issue?

Can it be minimised by limiting the time in neutral with the lever released? Or does the collapse happen in gear while rolling as well but it's harder to hear?
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Brent S
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:06 pm

Re: the clutch noise, are we talking the usual clanking/rattle at idle (clutch lever released),or some other much deeper, clunking noise? Mine has had plenty of the former (sounds like shaking a tin can full of bolts) but not what I would describe as a “clunk” if you will.

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Evilgarfield
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:21 pm

I've always found it difficult to describe sounds with words. It's not super loud but still enough to worry someone unfamiliar with the issue.
It's not constant and it's irregular. It sometimes can't be heard for a few seconds but then happens 5 times in rapid succession.
It happens in neutral at idle with the clutch lever released. If the bike is revved or the lever pulled the noise stops instantly and completely
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:46 pm

It's the ramps of the face cams rattling together due to insufficient preload. The *Fix* is the addition of packing shims under the washer stack, Guzzi suggest an extra couple. I think three or four would be more sensible.

If the half moon collets escape the results are instant and catastrophic, they will immediately get fed into the pinions. Locking the rear wheel is a real possibility.

Have I seen this? Not on a six speeder. On the old five speeds I've seen it a few times over the last forty years.
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Evilgarfield
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:19 pm

So if locking of the rear wheel is possible this means they rattle even in gear and not only in neutral.
Damn I really wanted that bike... Now you got me worried
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Brent S
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:21 am

To be honest, that is the cleanest looking GRiSO I’ve seen for a while, and even more that it’s 15 years old, give or take. If it were me, I’d buy it. Sure, something could go wrong within 15 minutes of purchasing it, but that is Lady Luck. Plenty of car owners out there with very prestigious brands who have had nothing but grief, and with vehicles a lot younger. It’s a bloody clean bike (looking at the pics). Go for it!
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Brent S
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:27 am

Consider it from a different angle. How many more opportunities are you going to get to purchase a bike that clean, of that type and vintage, in the next few years? And that doesn’t require you to ride 3,000 miles just to look at it. They ain’t getting any younger my friend (as with all of us). 😆
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Evilgarfield
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:47 am

Haha you sound like you are selling the bike :p

Nah I agree that the bike looks clean. I'm just worried to have a mass moving and bumping around there. Especially if Pete thinks it could lead to a pretty nasty issue. Then again Guzzi did not issue a recall for that, meaning that they did not think it could harm people (unlike the CARC seal issue). I'm really torn. I don't care about the noise but the 1000$ bill for the fix and the possibility that it fails on me worries me.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:06 am

Evilgarfield wrote:
So if locking of the rear  wheel is possible this means they rattle even in gear and not only in neutral.
Damn I really wanted that bike... Now you got me worried

My intention is not to 'Worry', simply to inform. What would you prefer? That I say 'Yeah! Great! Buy it! Knock yerself out! and then if it tries to kill you at some point I say'"Ummm? Well? Perhaps I should of told you about that?"

The chances are that it would/will just rattle away ad-infinitum and not cause any issues. Me? It would drive me fucking bonkers and I'd worry because I knew what it was doing. It would drive me nuts. OK?

Do you know what a face cam shock absorber is and how it's supposed to work?
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Evilgarfield
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:59 am

Pete, please don't think I'm putting the blame on you. In fact, I'm very happy that you are here to tell young newbies how things work.

I am trying to asses the real risk of the thing because on one hand there is a very pristine bike and a technical notice that tells that the noise does not prove or cause any mechanical problem and on the other side there is you who seems to be very respected and knowledgeable who tells me that it COULD lead to an issue.

What I'm thinking now is to try to lower the price and get the service done next winter.

No I'm not very knowledgeable on the face cam shock absorber, hence why I come for help.

Edit: I found your post on guzziTech explaining it. Reading into it your response seems a bit less pessimistic.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:08 pm

Written thirteen years ago. I've since seen the issue in an early 'Nuovo six speed' and observed how much the washer stack can collapse and it's that that has increased my caution.

Interesting that all my information is still up on that site as according to its owner, who banned me years ago, I'm a know nothing drunkard who doesn't know anything! Laughing

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LBC Tenni
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:07 pm

If he removed your posts, he’d get a hundred messages a day from his clueless minions asking questions to which you’ve already provided the answers. And since he’s mostly clueless himself, he’d have to spend all day cutting and pasting your answers to respond. Razz


Last edited by LBC Tenni on Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Steak
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:10 pm

Maybe I was a bit flippant, but for anyone who comes new to the Guzzi world, Guzzis make a lot of "weird" noises, especially in the drive train.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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Brent S
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:52 pm

I listened to that YouTube clip in the link above, and somewhat regrettably, I can relate to that sound a bit with my own bike. However, mine will only do that for the first minute or so off a cold start, then it seems fine thereafter. I always (incorrectly) thought it was related to a slightly lower than ideal idle speed which my bike seems to have on a dead cold start, where it feels and sounds a bit “lumpy” until the engine heats up a little. It then settles after that, and the main idle sounds are then the usual valvetrain clatter etc.

Given I’m now alert to this issue, I’ll pay closer attention to it from now onwards and double-check that it’s definitely absent once the engine is warm, and also that it isn’t getting any worse over time.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spotting a false mileage    Spotting a false mileage  - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:58 pm

1200 8V doesn't suffer from this issue as on the 1200's the face cam shock absorber was deleted. No shock absorber = no cams to rattle.

On either box, especially if the idle is low, you can get a knocking noise simply from the backlash in the primaries. This can be exacerbated by poor throttle body balance as well.
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