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 Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal

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Buellbloke
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PostSubject: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:19 pm

Couldnt find any references for removal of top mount on the rear suspension pivot block?
Got all the rest apart, removed the wishbone, greased and played with all the little needles.

Top Mount seems to be a nut on a bolt left side, right side some kind of allen cap with another allen head recessed?
Blew me away, could not confidently remove the top mount Shocked
Luckily is still smooth action though that said all the other mounts were at their limit lubrication wise yet seemed smooth, the grey lithium grease had all but dried out.
Re- fitting rear wheel was a bastard until came to terms with it Shocked Laughing
Carc moves up and down freely no stiction, though going by the Pivot block bushes that doesnt mean anything. It could be ok but be in urgent need of greasing.
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:10 pm

My top mount is a bolt that goes through from the right side.
The frame is threaded on the left side but there was no nut on there and none shown in the parts book

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Buellbloke
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PostSubject: Re: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:31 pm

lcjohnny wrote:
My top mount is a bolt that goes through from the right side.
The frame is threaded on the left side but there was no nut on there and none shown in the parts book

Am talking about 9 10 11 but on mine there is no head on a bolt, its flush on one side.
Looking at the diagram its just an allen bolt.
What 12 and 13 to do with?
I guess its just an allen bolt sat in the mount on the swing arm.
Everything was so f*cking tight, too tight, over tight.

Thanx for the pic Johnny. I'll have another go tomorrow Cool
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:45 pm

9 is an allen with a long head which sits inside the boss on the swing arm so it looks flush or as though it has not got a head. The head does not tighten to the swing arm but pinches the inner bearing of the "double conrod" against the swing arm

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Buellbloke
Biondino
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PostSubject: Re: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:06 pm

lcjohnny wrote:
9 is an allen with a long head which sits inside the boss on the swing arm so it looks flush or as though it has not got a head. The head does not tighten to the swing arm but pinches the inner bearing of the "double conrod" against the swing arm

It looks like there is another smaller allen head bolt inside that long head bolt?
Maybe am just being mystified.
I still have to undo it though the long head allen to get that bush off?
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:24 pm

yes you need to hold the nut on the left side (maybe holding a hugger bracket) and undo the allen.

PS if it has a small allen screw inside the hex Previous Owner may have drilled the bolts lengthways to feed grease to the needle rollers?

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Buellbloke
Biondino
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PostSubject: Re: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:20 am

Phoned Gutsibits they seemed to think I wanted a whole new pivot block as most people find theirs seized. Guess am lucky.
Enquired about new bushes, are like almost £30 each shocking, over £100 4 or 5 bushes.
Thought f*ck it will sand the rust off the ends and live with the ones I have Shocked

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:29 am

Buy the complete double conrod assembly. It costs about $200AU so probably £150 or so with VAT. Take the shock out and press out any recalcitrant bolts with a hydraulic press and then reassemble properly greased.

Also, if your double conrod is seized your swingarm bearings will be fucked. Just do them.
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:38 am

Agree with Pete - when you add the price of all the bearings, seals and bushes - the "conrods" are cheaper Sad
The prices were eyewatering in most places and the cheapest (last year) were MSP in Holland MSP linky.

If you would rather re-build them yourself,
I have an old set (no needles or bushes) you can have for the price of postage -

then you can load them before you take the bike off the road

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Buellbloke
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PostSubject: Re: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:59 am

My finances are becoming somewhat strained, hence buying a bike I can work on.
So the bushes have some rust on the ends as long as one side is smooth to assist in removal am happy.
All the bushes and needle bearings on the pivot block and wishbone are nice smooth and fluid now I have re-greased them.
The only bad one is mounted to the swing arm/shaft arm, that allen bolt is seized. But the pivot action is still quite smooth.
About to use some heat and a small steel chisel on the head to see if can't knock it loose.
If all else fails will endeavour to remove the swing arm, sort the bearings and have some f*cker help me extract that seized bolt.
Am not buying into the whole throw lots of money at it attitude sorry folks.
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:36 am

That all sounds quite good

mine were seriously ruined
2 of them were iron oxide bushes - no visible needles
3 bushes were badly brinneled with no sign of lubricant and i think one was ok on one side!

Not really an option to not do it -

It has to be a regular strip and regrease as i could not afford to buy all of those bits regularly

- it is just as bad as those 80s jap superbikes with low suspension linkages Sad

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Buellbloke
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PostSubject: Re: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:39 pm

lcjohnny wrote:
That all sounds quite good

mine were seriously ruined
2 of them were iron oxide bushes - no visible needles
3 bushes were badly brinneled with no sign of lubricant and i think one was ok on one side!

Not really an option to not do it -

It has to be a regular strip and regrease as i could not afford to buy all of those bits regularly

- it is just as bad as those 80s jap superbikes with low suspension linkages Sad

Am an avid service tech NOT but I do possess a modicum of common sense.
Even though my stroked out brain forgets as much as it learns, drives me nuts.
Have been all over the bike, am yet to balance tps and beetle remap, am waiting on me new Mistral shorty silencer the Termignoni is paying for.
Bike with termy runs like it should, have no running issues whatsoever, fuel consumption aint great, under 5k in top am getting about 120 over considerably less.
Its a little bit snatchy in low revs and gears but most bikes these days are, compared to my harley prior to remap its a dream.
Every rusty nut bolt and fastener has been replaced with stainless and where appropriate anti seize has been applied.
Caliper bolts were retained and brushed up as almost brassy under the silver paint.

Suspension is a tad harsh but have ridden worse, a brand new harley is worse  Laughing Fully intend to fit me a Stelvio shock at some point.
The solenoid thing does not play up on mine, though very occassionaly after a super short stop it might refuse then it always starts.
Have checked head races they are good, wheel bearings they are good, bled brakes and clutch, changed fluids, re-sealed iffy breather hose's.
Check the belt, serviced the tappets. Even ensured seat lock and release is a simple push and pop.
Had fuel tank off several times yet to actually uncouple the f*cker, obtained a new set of front tank rubbers am yet to fit.

Serviced all the pivot block bushes except the one connect to the Carc, its free and looser than all the others were.
Its not like it moves much that one back and forth a tad.
The bolt is seized in its threaded part, possibly the bush too.
The Carc moves up and down freely its not binding, there is no hint of stiction.
I intend to remove it at some point this winter or maybe spring/early summer.
Then I will drill that seized f*cker out but do my best not to f*ck the pivot block in the process.
Couldnt use too much heat for fear of melting the seals.

Tell me its a left hand thread and I'll have another go at it  Shocked
That is one soft bolt, sliced half the head off it trying to tap it around (not pictured) Sad

Butchered Bolt
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:57 pm

right hand thread
is nut turning on left hand side?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:07 pm

Once the swingarm is out you can use a press on it. The last one we had that was seized I asked a machinist mate for help to remove it. He soaked the whole swingarm in hot water and the bolt just fell out! (Shrug?).

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Buellbloke
Biondino
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PostSubject: Re: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:25 pm

lcjohnny wrote:
right hand thread
is nut turning on left hand side?

Nut is off but when on a few threads it dont budge cus other side in non moving.



Pete Roper wrote:
Once the swingarm is out you can use a press on it. The last one we had that was seized I asked a machinist mate for help to remove it. He soaked the whole swingarm in hot water and the bolt just fell out! (Shrug?).

How can you press a threaded bolt out Pete?
There is some kind of plate inserted on the side opposite to take up slack as well as provide the correct size hole for the bolt to pass thru on that side, yea I dont get it bom
Am sure you f*ckers is taking the piss Laughing

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:56 pm

The bolt threads into the nut it doesn't thread into the centre race bushing or the top hat bushing on the LH side of the swingarm. It is supposed to be a sliding fit but if not serviced regularly it will rust into either the swingarm, the centre race or the top hat bush. It's that that is preventing it moving.

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Buellbloke
Biondino
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PostSubject: Re: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:38 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
The bolt threads into the nut it doesn't thread into the centre race bushing or the top hat bushing on the LH side of the swingarm. It is supposed to be a sliding fit but if not serviced regularly it will rust into either the swingarm, the centre race or the top hat bush. It's that that is preventing it moving.

F*ck! I tried two different slimmer nuts locked together turning and beating was solid.
Half the missinformation I gleaned claimed it was threaded at the head bolt end Shocked
On Guzzi's part that top mount seems a bit of a f*ckup, on the nut side is an oversizd bolt hole with a plated insert, the gap for the pivot block is wide enough to fit that spacer and still some.
Everything nut and bolt came apart easy and for that they used an allen bolt flush fit when there is nothing on that side impeding it.

What size is the big allen/hex on the swing arm main shaft please?
I've ordered a castle socket.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:14 pm

The spindle hex is a 14mm.

Don't pay any attention to the manual's instructions on torquing the castellated collar for the spindle. From memory the torque figure given for that is in fact the figure for the spindle itself and is reasonably high. The castellated collar simply preloads the swingarm bearings in the same way that trailer wheel bearings or the front wheel bearings of an old school rear wheel drive car are preloaded. Simply tighten t down until all play is removed and a very slight resistance is felt and then secure it by tightening the swingarm pinch bolts so it can't come undone.

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Buellbloke
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PostSubject: Re: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:16 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
The spindle hex is a 14mm.

Don't pay any attention to the manual's instructions on torquing the castellated collar for the spindle. From memory the torque figure given for that is in fact the figure for the spindle itself and is reasonably high. The castellated collar simply preloads the swingarm bearings in the same way that trailer wheel bearings or the front wheel bearings of an old school rear wheel drive car are preloaded. Simply tighten t down until all play is removed and a very slight resistance is felt and then secure it by tightening the swingarm pinch bolts so it can't come undone.


Checked my tools have a new half inch drive 14mm allen not that they are expensive.
Picked up some special grease for the job "Liqui Moly LM47 with Teflon" Long Life Grease good for splines too.
Great info as always Pete I've clocked that about the bearing pre load.
Ordered a used Stelvio Shock to swap out same time as service arm. kill 2 birds and all that.

Here's a clarification picture of that seized bolt head and hence why it seizes I imagine.

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.
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:40 am

Well done getting it apart.
That grease sounds like a good find.
I used marine outboard engine grease - seemed fine at 6000 miles
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Buellbloke
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PostSubject: Re: Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal   Rear Suspension Pivot Block Removal Icon_minitime1Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:55 am

lcjohnny wrote:
Well done getting it apart.
That grease sounds like a good find.
I used marine outboard engine grease - seemed fine at 6000 miles

Am just showing it ha ha aint got that f*cker off yet Embarassed
Thats just a pic I spotted giving a good visualisation on the bolt head and why it prob gets stuck so easy.
Mine will prob look much more bastardised by time I get the f*cker out Laughing
Will be using anti seize on that bolt head for assembly.

Marine outboard engine grease prob have much better water resistance, I avoid riding in rain where possible.
Also dont use high pressure washers on my bike.
Mostly the grease issue is down to lack of it and it wearing away & getting washed away from lack of maintainance.
Once them link bushes are greased proper its a personal standard to ensure they remain that way Smile
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