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 Start problem 1200 Sport 4V (2010)

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Riversider
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PostSubject: Start problem 1200 Sport 4V (2010)   Start problem 1200 Sport 4V (2010) Icon_minitime1Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:15 am

Hi folks,

This is does not seem to be the usual loud click and nothing happens Startus Interruptus problem. But it may be related?
I press the starter and there's a tiny noise from the switch itself and nothing happens. Not a sound from the solenoid. Battery charge, all earths and fuses are super clean and as they should be. The side-stand switch is OK, and there are no error codes showing.

In the past this was a rare non-start event, but it could be solved by flicking the  kill-switch a couple of times, and lo –ignition! (Go figure?? but it worked.) But now—no more. Push starter—tiny noise at switch—and nothing.  I know this is not a GRiSO, but any suggestions will be very welcome. (I have trawled all the usual posts on Startus Interruptus, by the way.)

And, following that, can anyone also tell me where the starter relay is under the seat of the 1200 sport, (it's not easy to get to or identify) and how the usual Startus Interruptus fix might be applied to it?

It may, of course just be the switch button itself, but I'm wary of trying to open up the starter switch module, and thought I'd start with the acknowledged common problem.

Thanks.
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Start problem 1200 Sport 4V (2010)   Start problem 1200 Sport 4V (2010) Icon_minitime1Thu Jul 21, 2022 4:08 pm

IMHO the easiest Startus Interruptus fix (fix 2) is to put a 30a fused relay next to the solenoid - hung from the back engine mounting plate and fired by the existing solenoid trigger wire.
That way even a little 10v trickle down that wire will join the solenoid to +12v

Wiring:  feed
(1) the trigger power: from the female spade connector on the wire that goes to the solenoid
(2) the trigger earth: to the nearest hard bolt to a clean scraped and vaselined part of the frame
(3) the switched power: from the +ive terminal on the starter (FIRST detatch the battery earth as this connection is unfused and next to  conductive frame parts)
(4) the switched output: to the male spade connector on the solenoid
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Riversider
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PostSubject: Re: Start problem 1200 Sport 4V (2010)   Start problem 1200 Sport 4V (2010) Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:58 am

Thanks Jon,

I'm still trying to diagnose the problem, however. Trying again today I got a grunt from the starter (like a very, very weak battery) and after another couple of tries nothing at all but a tiny click that seems to come from one of the relays under the saddle. (Not the handlebar switch after all.) What I'm hoping to get the forum's advice about is —which relay? And where the heck is it under the saddle? It's a tight space under there, with a bunch of what looks like relays crammed together down the RH side towards the front—ie: not at all like the GRiSO layout.  
Advice, a sketch, or better still a photograph, would be welcome to identify the appropriate starter relay. A simple replacement might be worth a try? And then try a startus interruptus mod?
Cheers.
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Start problem 1200 Sport 4V (2010)   Start problem 1200 Sport 4V (2010) Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:19 am

Sorry i don't know where the relays are on the Sport.
If the wiring is similar to GRiSO then there will be 2 relays a "Start" relay which the ecu earths out when the button is pressed and then a "Start Maintenance" relay which keeps the starter turning after you release the button until the engine fires.
Kiwi Roy thinks that the "Start Maintenance" relay keeps closed even when battery line voltage is low to help poor starting.

I would consider putting a voltmeter between the wire to the solenoid and earth to see whether there is a voltage. If there is, and if your meter will show 10a, put it in series between the solenoid terminal and that wire to see if it is delivering 10a.  
Kiwi Roy's has done a lot of good investigative work on the starting peculiarities of Carc Guzzi's.
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Start problem 1200 Sport 4V (2010)   Start problem 1200 Sport 4V (2010) Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:02 pm

Hi Rory,

The relay with the yellow wire underneath it is the one. There does not seem to be a set order for these relays as they all will go pretty much anywhere.

Take it off its mount and press the starter button, while holding the relay - you will feel it click - that is the one. In fact, the yellow wire is the one to disconnect, tape up so it won't short, replace it with a wire fed from the battery +ve, through a fuse to the relay where the yellow wire came out. This is the simple "startus interruptus" fix.


Last edited by Oz1200Guzzi on Sat Jul 23, 2022 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Riversider
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PostSubject: Re: Start problem 1200 Sport 4V (2010)   Start problem 1200 Sport 4V (2010) Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:24 pm

Thanks Tony that makes sense —otherwise all the relays look the same. And you have a 1200 Sport!
Cheers,
 Rory

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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Start problem 1200 Sport 4V (2010)   Start problem 1200 Sport 4V (2010) Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 23, 2022 4:10 pm

Yes Rory, I have one. Like many with GRiSO, this is a keeper - just gone over 150,000 km - still going strong
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