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 GRiSO wont start after a ride?

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PostSubject: GRiSO wont start after a ride?   GRiSO wont start after a ride? Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:15 am

Happened yesterday. Did about 30mi stopped for a few minutes then 30mi home. Parked out side garage to get gear off then when I went to start the bike nothing. Turn the key, GRiSO on the screen,tach sweeps, voltage shows 12.3V,in neutral and sidestand down. Hit the starter nothing but a faint click under the seat somewhere. Cycled through the gears and returned to neutral a couple of times in case that was the case but no. Sidestand up and down too still nothing. Ordered a new starter relay and going to check the cables for corrosion where I read that is common with these models. Any one else had this happen so sudden or did I miss something?
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO wont start after a ride?   GRiSO wont start after a ride? Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:16 am

forgot to say I cycled the key switch and the red on/off switch too several times
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MrBob
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO wont start after a ride?   GRiSO wont start after a ride? Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:21 am

Had the exactly same thing happen a cpl months ago, every thing normal, rode to put some air in the tyres, stopped and went to start and just a click click, the dash indicated all was ok. Pulled the seat and found had blown the 15amp " fuse D".(start up relay coil).
Replaced with the spare and all was good again.
Packed for a rally with spare fuses in kit and headed off, at the second fuel stop, same thing again only this time had to unpack the luggage.
This happened a few times over the trip and I ended up pulling the starter off, giving the solenoid the Tractor Tap, checking wiring and connections etc. Ended up with more fuses in my pockets than change by the time I got home.
Once home, pulled the start button control of the bars, gave all the connections a dose of silicon electrical spray and a tighten, did all other connections for good measure.
And haven't had a problem since. Touch wood.
Did not really find the problem, but put it down to connections.



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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO wont start after a ride?   GRiSO wont start after a ride? Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:14 am

Thanks MrBob. I havent check the fuses yet as it was getting late but I'll submit my findings when I get back to the machine
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO wont start after a ride?   GRiSO wont start after a ride? Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:35 am

As well as the above solutions I have also found fuses coming loose and relays backing out of their station. The roads are rough around here, sorry, did I call them ROADS?

Solution 1. Using long nose pliers put a slight twist in each of the two blades so they no longer line up with each other.

Solution 2. Add some 3mm (single sided sticky) foam pads to the back of each relay, so when the fuse box cover is clipped back on, it holds them firmly in place.

And don't forget the short wire addition, battery direct to starter relay.
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO wont start after a ride?   GRiSO wont start after a ride? Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:37 am

Check the earth strap connection at the starter. You may need to remove it and clean it.
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garyclem
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO wont start after a ride?   GRiSO wont start after a ride? Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:44 am

happened to me a while back, fuse blown due to high resistance at the battery terminals 'cause they were a little loose and a little dirty.
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO wont start after a ride?   GRiSO wont start after a ride? Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:15 am

Perhaps it resented you admiring that Thruxton the other day? scratch
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO wont start after a ride?   GRiSO wont start after a ride? Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:21 am

Yes, stop ogling Thruxtons.

But seriously - my wife's Gladius was cutting out on her while cruising at Parkway speeds (55mph).
I gave it some injector cleaner AND I tightened the leads to the battery.
EFI can get touchy when the electrics are not tight enough.

DM
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO wont start after a ride?   GRiSO wont start after a ride? Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:43 pm

This is a common issue not only with a GRiSO.
All of the above are relevant and may help.
You should also check the starter solenoid as it may be sticking and drawing excessive amps through the circuit and blowing the fuse and yes this can be a random issue.
Pull the starter off remove the solenoid (you need a torx drive) clean it out - before reassembling clean the sliding surfaces with fine emery or similar make sure it is completely clean and lube it lightly with something like WD40.
You can also run a relay in the starter wiring to feed direct power from the battery to the solenoid and use the standard starter solenoid wire as a trigger for the relay. This takes the excessive load out of the starter switch circuit.
Never had an issue of this type with my old GRiSO (08) but my newer one has problems which have been overcome with the additional stater relay mod.
Won't hurt if you pull all of the connections and clean them thoroughly.
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO wont start after a ride?   GRiSO wont start after a ride? Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:30 pm

Ok so Fuse B was blown. According to the manual thats the fuse for Tail lights,license plate light,passing,ignition relay (15A). I replaced it with the spare and the bike started. I checked the battery leads for corrosion but they are spotless. I did not have a lot of time so I'll need to do more investigating and address the topics mentioned above.
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mark111
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO wont start after a ride?   GRiSO wont start after a ride? Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:49 pm

Could be you won't have a problem again for a few months or you could have the same problem tomorrow, you won't know until it happens.
Keep a few fuses handy just in case and when you get the time check and clean all of the connections.
You can go from there if it is still an issue.
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO wont start after a ride?   GRiSO wont start after a ride? Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:10 am

Either way clean every connection. Just because you can't see something wrong, doesn't mean that there isn't. I had a similar issue on mine a while back - cleaned the battery terminals, leads and the main earth point. Thank heavens for Li Batteries - took some work but she started after a few tries.

I have the relay bypass that Mark suggests - works well, providing your battery is not half flat.

Solenoid plunger best left clean and dry (ducks for cover) - WD40 will attract dust and will turn it into a sticky grease over time. Just my 2 cents worth.

Mark we can discuss next Tuesday if you want and the reasoning behind it - maybe a tech tip at the meeting?
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO wont start after a ride?   GRiSO wont start after a ride? Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:24 am

mark111 wrote:

You can also run a relay in the starter wiring to feed direct power from the battery to the solenoid  and use the standard starter solenoid wire as a trigger for the relay. This takes the excessive load out of the starter switch circuit.
Do you have this on a schematic by any chance?

The day this happened I was caught in a thunderstorm which I didnt think was important as the bike started up next time afterwards but now I'm thinking it could be related. I read on wildguzzi earlier of similar occurrences on Stelvios after getting caught in Thunderstorms. I dont want to detract from the advice given earlier I'll check all that ,I'm still waiting on my Torx set,relays etc to arrive
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO wont start after a ride?   GRiSO wont start after a ride? Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:20 pm

Startus interuptus is pretty common on our bikes. Nine times out of ten it is either corrosion on the terminals or a loose/corroded ground/earth connection behind the starter.

Notwithstanding all of the other items previously mentioned.

For additional reference, you can find the color coded GRiSO wiring diagrams in the Ex Libris section of the ghetto. Here is a link.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO wont start after a ride?   GRiSO wont start after a ride? Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:54 am

SPEIRMOOR wrote:
mark111 wrote:

You can also run a relay in the starter wiring to feed direct power from the battery to the solenoid  and use the standard starter solenoid wire as a trigger for the relay. This takes the excessive load out of the starter switch circuit.
Do you have this on a schematic by any chance?


Apparently MPH Cycles in Texas developed a 'plug-in' kit for this - around $25 they say.

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I have no connection, or experience with this, but it's on my list of 'just in case' resources.

And - its feels right to support those Grizzled Guzzi Guys fixing 'Italian Oversights'.....

Joseph Lucas "Gentlemen don't motor around after Dark"
Signore Giuseppe Lucasi "Si - or even during the day sometimes...."
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO wont start after a ride?   GRiSO wont start after a ride? Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:26 am

There's no need for another relay. This is a well known condition with GRiSO and other bikes, and there's a simple fix. The problem is that the heavy current needed to pull in the big starter solenoid is routed through fuse 'B', the ignition switch (!), and lot of wiring. It's doubtful the ignition switch is rated to carry starter solenoid current so not only does fuse 'B' blow, but at some stage the ignition switch will fail.

The simple mod is to provide the starter solenoid relay with a separate fused 12v supply. I did it on my 1200 GRiSO which was forever blowing fuse 'b' and it cured it completely.

Details here:

http://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/modern-no-start-issue-solution.4908/
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO wont start after a ride?   GRiSO wont start after a ride? Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:19 am

Just to add a little extra to this topic;

I had the classic Fuse B blowing starting problem on my admittedly little used 2009 GRiSO 8V. I followed all the advice on cleaning contacts and running a wire direct from the positive battery terminal to the relay (via a new fuse), I even bought a new battery, but it was still blowing (the new) fuse! Sad

Finally tracked it down to the Bosch starter motor. The "brush carrier" plate on the back end of the starter motor earths to the starter body via two little bent "tangs". I cleaned them up and bent them out very slightly to get a better contact with the body of the starter and this solved the problem. Very Happy  

This seems to be a relatively common starter motor problem as there is a well documented fix for 30 year old Honda CX650 (turbo) because the tangs on that starter don't make good enough contact either.

Hope this additional info helps someone
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO wont start after a ride?   GRiSO wont start after a ride? Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:00 am

Hey All-

I had this happen to me today-

On top of mount Washington in NH- 3+ hours and ~170 miles away from home.

So needless to say, I don't want this happening again.

I did have fuses/some tools with me- using my little fuse gauge- None of my fuses were bad- I did beat the tops of the relays with my set of allen keys, mainly out of frustration (but also a very civil way to do mechanic work) and guess what? it works now.

I probably started the engine up ~20 times when I got back to the garage with no issues/blow fuses- So from this thread I should probably start taking a look at all of the connections- right? Or just replace with the relay mod from MPH cycles while I'm at it?

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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO wont start after a ride?   GRiSO wont start after a ride? Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:11 am

That be the "startus interruptus" kit - do it. While you are in there, clean all connections. Perhaps even consider moving the main earth to one of the gearbox mounting bolts instead of the bit of a spacer that is used (and is most likely useless) under the starter cover - this is a known problem area too.

Oh, and battery terminals too - you might be surprised what you see there.
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