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 Grisos and E10

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paulbrice
Oz1200Guzzi
rick pope
bjor
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bjor
Biondino
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PostSubject: Grisos and E10   Grisos and E10 Icon_minitime1Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:41 pm

This year we were blessed with the so called environmental-friendly E10 petrol here in Norway.
Lots of confusing reactions on differrent social medias on how this is affecting our bikes, but very few qualified opinions.
Anyone here with experience on the subject or knowledge that can clarify this?

Personally I fill 98 octane whenever I find it, but it's not locally avalable where I live. I have a cannister in my car, which I fill up whenever I pass a petrol station whith 98, but it's a hassle...

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rick pope
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PostSubject: Re: Grisos and E10   Grisos and E10 Icon_minitime1Sun Jul 09, 2023 4:44 pm

Here in the USA, we've had ethanol enriched fuel since 1975. It caused headaches for a while, but the engineers learned what bits pay nice in that environment.

That said, for some reason, some manufacturers still sent out machines with components affected by the ethanol. So, 30 years later, MG introduces our favorite machine with a gas tank made of a grade of plastic which changes shape when using the stuff. Silly Italians.

Today, I was working on my 1958 Farmall 140 which tolerates ethanol quite well, as does my 1927 Henderson motorcycle. YMMV.
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Grisos and E10   Grisos and E10 Icon_minitime1Sun Jul 09, 2023 6:22 pm

Don't use it as the tank will expand. Sure it will come off but you won't get it back on!

The occasional tank may not hurt but avoidance is the best solution

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bjor
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PostSubject: Re: Grisos and E10   Grisos and E10 Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 10, 2023 2:32 am

Oz1200Guzzi wrote:
Don't use it as the tank will expand. Sure it will come off but you won't get it back on!

The occasional tank may not hurt but avoidance is the best solution

Hmm, scary! Shocked
Problem is I don't always have the choice...
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Grisos and E10   Grisos and E10 Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 10, 2023 4:33 am

You could try an ethanol 'shield' additive but I'm not sure that would address the tank swelling problem.....

I bought two bottles of this but haven't used yet because E5 is still easy to find

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Tim Henry
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PostSubject: Re: Grisos and E10   Grisos and E10 Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 10, 2023 4:43 am

My 15 had the tank warrantied out after 2 yearsfor the bubbled paint issue it didn't like the 89 ethanol free so 91-3 octane was the norm i took the tip over thingy off which relieved pressure the second tank showed no sign of bubbling for the remaining year before totalling it. My question is are the shiny painted tanks less prone to this as My 2000 Quota purchased new that was red never had any swell or bubblig for the 130 k miles and 6 years i had it that was alot of removals for air filter changes. Flash foward to my recent 07 GRiSO no swell or bubbles yet i removed tip valve and use 91-93 as it too runs less well on 89 e-free in our florida heat . Just wondering if matt paint more flexible or something.
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JohnA
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PostSubject: Re: Grisos and E10   Grisos and E10 Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 10, 2023 5:32 am

I’m sure matt paint makes no difference as my 2014 and others like a friends 2016 swelled. I ran 89 non ethanol for 6 years while I lived in Savannah and the bike ran great. I recently moved to Arizona and non ethanol is almost non existent. I used to do what Bjor did and keep a 5 gallon can full at home for top offs.
Don’t know how many times I’ve mentioned here that I ended up lining a replacement tank with Caswell tank epoxy about 7 years ago. Still have my original tank and it took it about 5- 6 months to “unswell”

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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Grisos and E10   Grisos and E10 Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 10, 2023 11:19 am

Its not about the Octane figure (or the US equivalen) it is just about the ethanol %. Ethanol is very hygroscopic and will absorb a lot of water from the atmosphere.

With changes in temperature and pressure the water can separate back out - leading to rust damage in the fuel pump complex. Or it can 'import' it (I am not a chemist) into the type of plastic that the fuel tank is made of causing it to swell up to 10%.  That is why swollen tanks need to be dried out for a month or more.
It is best to avoid any ethanol in  internal combustion vehicles not designed to cope with it Ethanol in fuel

Particularly bad for bikes like the GRiSO where the tank sits inside the frame tubes.
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Tim Henry
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PostSubject: Re: Grisos and E10   Grisos and E10 Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 10, 2023 11:39 am

Im well aware of the properties of Ethanol but am more concerned with the recommended octane and not wanting to detonate the engine to death. But I do find it interesting that my shiny tanks didn't distort and the mat finished did, I don't let fuel sit for long as they all are and were my daily riders maybe its worse on less used machines. I dont want to beat this subject to death just noticing my expierience sofar
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JohnA
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PostSubject: Re: Grisos and E10   Grisos and E10 Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 10, 2023 2:14 pm

Tim, I think the fact that my bike would sit all week, every week, until the weekend, contributed to the issue. I think if you use the bike more and don’t let the gas sit and alcohol separate, you’re better off. So I believe your logic is sound.
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bjor
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PostSubject: Re: Grisos and E10   Grisos and E10 Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:26 am

I was aware of the hygroscopic properies of ethanol and some of the negative consequenses of this (rust, lower efficiancy, etc.)
However, I did not know that it could lead to swelling of the tank... Evil or Very Mad

What about rubber parts, hoses and the like. Do we need to take any precautions here?
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kidsmoke
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PostSubject: Re: Grisos and E10   Grisos and E10 Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 11, 2023 3:58 am

bjor wrote:
What about rubber parts, hoses and the like. Do we need to take any precautions here?

Run it. Don’t display it. If you do, (display) air out the tank.

Running stabil marine 360 in mine in the wake of a minor swelling issue on a pal’s Stelvio, just as a precaution.

Wish the NonE in my ‘hood was higher than 89 octane (93-94 euro octane)
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JohnA
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PostSubject: Re: Grisos and E10   Grisos and E10 Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 11, 2023 5:50 am

Bjor,
I’m pretty sure the worry is just for the neoprene (plastic) tank. Years ago when I did all my research, I was told Ducati also made plastic tanks on some bikes and had the same issue. There are others as I recall that I saw on YouTube when I was looking at tutorials of how to line your tank. If you have a choice, I’d just stay away. And I don’t think using 89 octane is a problem really.
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bjor
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PostSubject: Re: Grisos and E10   Grisos and E10 Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 11, 2023 6:10 am

JohnA wrote:
And I don’t think using 89 octane is a problem really.

I will when I can.
But I have to drive 140 km to get it... Sad
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