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 Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at

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rick pope
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JonB85
Carlotto
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PostSubject: Re: Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at   Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 01, 2023 10:08 am

beetle wrote:

Unfortunately the ECU won't revert to the standard map after the PC has been smashed to smithereens. Is there an AT as well? Most likely the map has lambda disabled.

Is that what this is? There's no markings on it besides a sticker on the back side with some numbers on it. It's connected inline with the O2 sensor.

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at   Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 01, 2023 3:09 pm

It's definitely some sort of 'Tuning' gizmo. It does bear a suspicion resemblance to some of the other Dynotek junk you find bolted onto bikes. Have a look at the injector connections. Are there what appear to be a second set of connector plugs tucked around by the throttlebodies? That's the usual sure fire giveaway it's got a PC fitted.

In your case it would be worth taking the 'Wings' off and having a good look around beside the airbox as this tends to be where Power Commanders and other such nonsense get hidden.

If it's got this sort of nonsense fitted I'd have a look in the airbox and see if it's got an aftermarket air filter as well? These things tend to go together as a sort of 'All in one "Fleece Me" package'!

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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at   Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 01, 2023 4:21 pm


The Dynojunk AT's are usually emblazoned with "Dynojet" and "AUTOTUNE".

It could be one their Optimiser gizmo's. What is the number on the sticker?




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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at   Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 01, 2023 5:16 pm

It appears to have wires going to the O2 sensor and there seems to be an abundance of other colourful spaghetti coming out of the box the unicorn lives in. That's what made me suspicious there might be other fuckery associated with it. Where is the cloth braided cable going?
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at   Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 01, 2023 11:12 pm


That's what those unicorn boxes look like. They include braided line and colourful spaghetti.

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Suspect




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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at   Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 01, 2023 11:42 pm

Ah. Hadn't seen them before. I'm more used to pulling out 'Fat Duc's and those awful ATS fooler whatzits.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at   Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 01, 2023 11:55 pm


I don't think they make them anymore. Still quite a few available to buy, but I couldn't find mention of them on the Dynojet website. I suspect the AT replaced it.

Fuctifino. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯





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GuzziSteve
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PostSubject: Re: Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at   Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Sep 02, 2023 3:52 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
Ah. Hadn't seen them before. I'm more used to pulling out 'Fat Duc's and those awful ATS fooler whatzits.

I haven't seen those either, that alter the O2 signal, maybe an attorney bought one.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at   Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Sep 02, 2023 4:51 pm

If it plugs into the O2 sensor then that would be its purpose. Problem is, in my experience, they make everything go haywire! It seems to screw up a lot of the other corrections and the mixture fluctuates wildly. So wildly they often cause a 'Service' warning and at most times make everything hideously, damagingly, rich.

The air temp foolers are just as bad. Sure they richen up the mixture a bit, but then the O2 sensor trims around it so in closed loop it makes no difference and in open loop the already rich map is made even richer!

Complete junk! If you hold that box up to your ear you can probably hear the clip-clop of the hooves of the tiny unicorn galloping around inside!

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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at   Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 03, 2023 5:20 am

GuzziSteve wrote:
Pete Roper wrote:
Ah. Hadn't seen them before. I'm more used to pulling out 'Fat Duc's and those awful ATS fooler whatzits.

I haven't seen those either,  that alter the O2 signal, maybe an attorney bought one.

Careful, Sir; careful.   Razz


Pete Roper wrote:


****

Complete junk! If you hold that box up to your ear you can probably hear the clip-clop of the hooves of the tiny unicorn galloping around inside!

Quintessential Pete Roper.  cheers

Bill

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JonB85
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PostSubject: Re: Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at   Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 04, 2023 10:13 am

Pete Roper wrote:
It's definitely some sort of 'Tuning' gizmo. It does bear a suspicion resemblance to some of the other Dynotek junk you find bolted onto bikes. Have a look at the injector connections. Are there what appear to be a second set of connector plugs tucked around by the throttlebodies? That's the usual sure fire giveaway it's got a PC fitted.

In your case it would be worth taking the 'Wings' off and having a good look around beside the airbox as this tends to be where Power Commanders and other such nonsense get hidden.

If it's got this sort of nonsense fitted I'd have a look in the airbox and see if it's got an aftermarket air filter as well? These things tend to go together as a sort of 'All in one "Fleece Me" package'!


Yeah I found a Power Commander when I first got the bike. And yes, it has one of those stupid open air filter brackets and had a BMC filter until I replaced it with an OEM one. I already found a used OEM air filter box cover to install. After I go riding tomorrow, I'll be pulling the tank off and starting the process of undoing this stupid tuner stuff so I can put a Beetle map on it.
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JonB85
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PostSubject: Re: Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at   Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 04, 2023 10:20 am

beetle wrote:

That's what those unicorn boxes look like. They include braided line and colourful spaghetti.

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Suspect




That looks like it! It's hard to tell what number is on the side. I don't have much wiggle room to twist it around to fully read it but either way it's coming off this week so I can put one of your maps on.

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JonB85
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PostSubject: Re: Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at   Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 05, 2023 12:32 pm

Well, the offenders have been removed:

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Removing the tank was a pain because the rear bolts were seized in those rubber bumpers. One of them split in half and I'm having a hell of a time trying to remove the respective pieces. Any suggestions?

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I also removed the airbox to clean it out along with the throttle bodies. It had quite a bit of oil inside...presumably from being "overfilled" most of its life. This clear hose was split in half so I'll be replacing it unless it's not an issue to just leave the short end hanging off the bottom of the airbox:

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I cleaned the throttle bodies as well as I could:

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I could see quite a bit of oil residue in the tube that connects the TB's to the cylinder head. Is there any benefit in trying to clean that out too? Or is it moot since it's past the butterfly valve?

There's also quite a bit of seepage and residue around that box at the front of the frame. Is there any benefit to trying to clean out the inside of it or should I just leave it? I've already ordered two new vacuum lines to replace the ones that run from this to the heads since they're cracking on either end. Is there a trick to getting those clamps off? You can see that one connection has a screw drive clamp but the others are those ones that look like they're crimped. Is there any reason I can't replace them with screw drive clamps too?

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And my charcoal canister was already removed. The line that is supposed to have that check valve for the fuel overflow is just cut off. Would it be advisable to replace it with a longer one that I can run down to the bottom of the bike?

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I won't be putting the bike back together right away so let me know if there's anything else I should tackle while I'm in here. Thanks!!
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ratso88
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PostSubject: Re: Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at   Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 05, 2023 12:46 pm

Good Job !

No ideas on the broken rubber bits, sorry.

The air box drain should be capped to prevent ingestion of unfiltered air.

I suggest cleaning and or replacing everything you have access to currently. Insure a less troubled riding future.

Crimped clamps can be replaced by screw type.

Tank has a vent(cut line) and drain on the other side. When I removed my canister I left the vent valve in place and just cut the remaining line to suit.

I think others will be along with better advice.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at   Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 05, 2023 5:56 pm

The broken/torn tank support rubbers are a pain. You'll probably need to do something fairly brutal to get them out. Get all the rubber off and grab the with mole grips or cut a slot in them and use an impact driver or some such.I can't remember how I used to get them out? It wasn't too hard but it was painful!

Those drain pipes off the airbox? There are two of them. The one you show and another that comes off a sideways facing spigot just behind the shock at the rear left of the box. While you can effectively just cap off the one at the rear it is very important that the front drain,the one shown in your pic,is both there and capped. The hoses go to the 'Clean' side of the airbox after the filter and if left open to the atmosphere they will drag in dirt and grime and it will damage the throttle bodies. The rear one is supposed to be a 'Water drain' but I've never ridden in the sort of conditions where sufficient water could get under the seat, into the airbox and through the filter to need to drain! While I still have a plugged hose on my bike it's more to satisfy Michael’s anal retentiveness than the fact it needs it in my opinion. It would be fine capped off. The underneath one is far more important as when capped as it should be the hose, which should be routed down to the wire clip just inboard of the RH footpeg plate acts as a reservoir for any excess oil that gets into the airbox. When the bike is parked it should run down and sit in the hose waiting to be drained at the next service rather than risking being drawn in to befoul the throttlebodies and stepper motor. So replace it and plug it after routing it correctly.

The hoses from the back of the heads are the engine breather hoses. Yes, they are weak and shitty but they last five to ten years depending on where you live. If you don't have a pair of Oetiker pliers for the clamps you can replace them with fuel injection line clamps. Do not use screw threaded 'Jubilee' clamps as they will damage the hose. While you're in there as well I'd advise you to change that large rubber cap, affectionately called the 'Condom', as it will eventually split and dump oil down the front of the engine.

When you put the airbox back in make sure all the hoses are connected including the vent hose from the collector box and the stepper motor feed.

Finally, the two nipples on the back of the tank are the tank vent on the right and the tank filler gutter drain n the left. The nipples are notoriously difficult to remove from the tank but especially the gutter drain is very prone to clogging up with calcified shit from the water, yes, even rainwater! If it isn't clear the water will go into the tank rather than drawing harmlessly away under the bike, (Both hoses should go to the same clip inboard of the right footpeg plate the airbox drain goes to but should NOT be plugged.) and in the tank it can cause serious damage to the fuel pump and fuel pressure relief valve. Try blowing through the drain with compressed air. If it isn't clear you can try removing the nipple, (Good luck with that!) and if that doesn't work you can use a combination of a small drill bit and a steel guitar string to poke through the calcified crud. DO NOT use the drill bit in a drill! Just spin it gently with your fingers. If you drill too far you'll go into the tank! You really don't want that! Keep poking and blowing until you get some flow through and then just flush it out with vinegar. The acid in the vinegar will dissolve the calcification deposits and hopefully clear the drain. Consider doing this just a piece of routine maintenance. If you don't let it block completely just running a bit of vinegar down the gutter drain once a year will probably keep it clear.

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JonB85
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PostSubject: Re: Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at   Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 06, 2023 3:36 pm

Thanks Pete! This is incredibly helpful and much appreciated.

Regarding those two engine breather hoses: have you heard of anyone replacing them with non-OEM lines? I'm normally a "do it right, do it once" kind of guy and would prefer to use OEM parts but given that they're about $50 each and on a 6-8 week backorder through AF1, I'm wondering if I can get away with using some silicone vacuum tubing instead. My concern is they make such a tight bend coming off the heads that I'm not sure that silicone will maintain its shape and could potentially collapse on itself...
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at   Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 06, 2023 4:33 pm

Remember they aren't vacuum hoses, they are under pressure, albeit fairly slight. It is important they don't kink as the motor has to be able to vent otherwise it will pop its rear main seal or front crank seal.

There is no reason you can't use some other form of oil resistant hose and others here have. One trick is to rather than having the hose from the left head go to the left spigot on the collector box and the right hose to the right one, swap them over and lengthen them. This allows for more gentle bends and less chance of the hoses kinking.

We always still use the OEM hoses, not because they are good, they aren't, they are shite, but because they are available, easy to fit and last five years or more if not abused so in real terms they aren't that expensive. Given the exchange rate at the moment though I think I should look for alternatives sooner rather than later.
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JonB85
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PostSubject: Re: Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at   Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 10, 2023 10:53 am

beetle wrote:

Unfortunately the ECU won't revert to the standard map after the PC has been smashed to smithereens. Is there an AT as well? Most likely the map has lambda disabled.

I assume there's no point in doing the map backup procedure then? The one referenced in your tutorial: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I'm almost back together and about to flash one of your tunes...
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JonB85
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PostSubject: Re: Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at   Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:03 am

Pete Roper wrote:
Remember they aren't vacuum hoses, they are under pressure, albeit fairly slight. It is important they don't kink as the motor has to be able to vent otherwise it will pop its rear main seal or front crank seal.

There is no reason you can't use some other form of oil resistant hose and others here have. One trick is to rather than having the hose from the left head go to the left spigot on the collector box and the right hose to the right one, swap them over and lengthen them. This allows for more gentle bends and less chance of the hoses kinking.

We always still use the OEM hoses, not because they are good, they aren't, they are shite, but because they are available, easy to fit and last five years or more if not abused so in real terms they aren't that expensive. Given the exchange rate at the moment though I think I should look for alternatives sooner rather than later.

Thanks. The fuel tank is finally back on. It's a real pain wresting that thing.

I did end up using silicone hoses to replace the breather hoses that run from the head. They worked well as far as fitment goes. I also ran and plugged a new forward drain line for the airbox, capped the rear side-facing nipple, and ran a new fuel line for the tank vent. The other nipple and line coming out of the left side of the tank were surprisingly clear of any crud and seems to vent correctly.

Only thing I didn't replace while I was in there is the rubber condom cap thing. I didn't have any success removing the broken tank bumper so I think those two will be set aside for winter projects...
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PostSubject: Re: Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at   Potential new owner looking for thoughts on a GRiSO I just looked at - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:56 am

Hot damn it's alive! So I guess I didn't screw anything up Thumbs Up

It went from needing throttle on startup to prevent it stalling with a low idle at 1k to firing right up with no help to a smooth 1.2k idle. I only had the chance to take a lap around the neighborhood but all of the snatchiness under 3k is totally gone.

Great job with the map Beetle! And I guess you can disregard that question above.

Thank you everyone for your input and assistance!
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beetle
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Excellent! If you decide you want a copy of a stock map, just let me know.




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