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 Barn find, Netherlands!

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PostSubject: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 24, 2023 12:17 am

Hi All!

A small introduction from Oss, Netherlands.

In my younger days I fancyd Ducati for 2 decades (900ss,900ss ie, Monster and TT2) but Started to dislike the brand after the models getting more expensive, attracting the "higher class" costumers, losing the bond with the Ducati community. Fortunately, the dealer whom I sold the TT2 agreed it's all about making money, not heritage anymore.

I started to think for an alternative and always fancyd the Guzzis on Ducati track days racing along with the Ducatis,Buells and Britten and loved the MUZ Skorpion Cup.
I considered to buy a streetlegal Skorpion Cup Racer after a testride but somehow I decided not to but the bike is very nice and comfy.

My short list narrowed down to Triumph, Buell and Moto Guzzi. Buell seemed very small and Triumph is chain driven. It took a while to get fixed on a Guzzi and went for a V7.

Visually this one was very pleasing and this V7 should never left the garage on 2 disadvantages: the 5 gearbox demands 60kmh and 110kmh where 50/100 is legal over here which feels annoying when rpm is just above bad vibes.
The other dowside was the wind pushing my legs outwards due to the narrow tank which overstretches my inner leg muscles...

Eventually I traded her in for a low milage GRiSO but fancys a small screen instead of a naked bike and a different exhaust. My Monster had 2 high placed cand and loved the look of it freeing the area of the rear wheel.

Pics date from 2014, The GRiSO had lived 6000km. I still feel the 3spoke is a better match for the GRiSO to date and love the white paint finish.

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ErikdeBrabander
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 24, 2023 12:24 am


The original exhaust had been swapped for the Mistral at TLM with the purshase.
I still have the original parts but lately I am getting keen on the original looks. It's not an ugly exhaust but a tad big. could look well if it was modified to sit higher IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 24, 2023 12:46 am

I was not keen at all for on the windscreen but went for the Cupracer look instead where it really shines as a better integrated design. The green is close to the V8 racer. Luckely I was able to use the original lightbulb and wiring in a smaller similar to the original house.
I'm fully aware this bike doesn't match modern aestatics like carbon. A more retro look suits best IMO.
I went for aluminium LED indicators as well. It took some trial and error to get he matching resistors but a local bike shop was willing to lend me a few for testing.


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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 24, 2023 1:01 am

The number 5 has been designed by my daughter who was 5yrs at the time. I did notice on curved surfices only a few numbers will be wrinkle free. The croocked lines are for me a high value of personalisation [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
And found a matching helmet which the dealer did not want to stock until he saw what I ordered for real LOL!! Basically it was a dirtbike helmet converted to street by AGV. The face was chosen to make some appearance in rearwiew mirrors.

Still the color setting was way off and had to cut some new decals several times.
The number 5 ended up in fluo orange based on the early V7 windscreens which makes a good contrast to the green background and shows some heritage.
Many tell me the color settings are way off but somehow these colors ended up what I was looking for. The white,black,green and orange gives me the feeling I will like this for decades to come!

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Last edited by ErikdeBrabander on Sun Sep 24, 2023 1:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 24, 2023 1:10 am

I added the lower licence plate holder and a K&N filter.
My reasoning was I only like to make the bike loud at open throttle to be able to drive at reasonable sound levels when desired.

Barn find, Netherlands! >170610
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 24, 2023 1:40 am

OK, so what year is it? Looks like a 2010? Is it rollerised? Your cosmetic changes don't appeal to me but that is no matter but your choice of a K&N filter is a disaster, remove it immediately and fit a paper one. Also make sure all the drain and breather hoses are intact and the drains are plugged.

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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 24, 2023 1:47 am

And this is where it ended for a while.
Due to a divorce it had been stored in my garage waiting for better days and a few other hobbys ended as well. I was not willing to give up on my hobbys and stored them all waiting for better days.

Before summer holiday I took her out for a drive but within 1km the rear tire got nailed pretty bad.
I was able to drive her stationary to the garage and stored her again to revive her after the summer holiday to overview the savings left. IMO it is still a hobby and needs to know it's place in life.

A few weeks ago she got a new rear tire from a local bike shop which owns a Dyno. Because the fuel level indicator burns after 130km I assumed TLM did a less than desired job at mapping my GRiSO (laptop in a backpack and hit the road) and it is not very smooth on the throttle when cornering a roundabout or a right turn at a crossing.
The mechanic has not been able to unlock the mapping(?) which forced me to visit TLM to deal with this situation.

Luckely they are very open mindend and understood why I do prefer a Dyno over their mapping and will place the original setting back, but they feel something is off in the fuel consumption. Probably a spark plug connector is cracked.

In the meanwhile I was reading this thread:
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I noticed on my Mistral High oval exhaust was spot on the best aftermarket one could wish for, but the K&N needs to be binned asap.
The engine needs to be rollerised and other than that there is little to be desired for tuning other than remapping.
I inquired what it would take to add a big bore kit and somehow I feel like it's now cheap, but way cheaper than trade the GRiSO in for something else (which is not better in design anyway because I like it the way it is: not overdesigned).

My daughter is 14yrs old now and GRiSO 8000km. It has been waiting 9yrs being beautiful and still I am not willing to part with the GRiSO and after visiting TLM it isn't likely I will the coming decades.

For me it's a rare white bull worth to upgrade and I guess I( the community) is lucky there isn't very much to upgrade and spend our savings on. For me, cosmetically it is as good as it gets but the engine needs some attention worth saving up for.

I might pull the trigger early 2024. The milage is too low NOT to consider a big bore kit.

A few more pics will be posted later of it's current state.

Erik
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:04 am

Big bore conversions are not easy and simply bolting on bigger bore cylinders will result in bad crankcase pressurisation problems. You can of course do it but I'd sort the tune and mapping first. 130km to light on for fuel is ridiculous. Even in winter I get 200. Once it warms up a bit I'm seeing 230 before light on on Red Bike.

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Tim Henry
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:23 am

80 miles till reserve at how much per liter? Ouch like Pete says get rid of KN rock strainer and talk to Beetle about a proper map

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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:25 am


130km? That's way too much fuel. I bet you can smell it in your oil. You're in danger of washing the bores smooth.

affraid




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In GRiSO we trust!
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:32 am

Hi Pete,
Yes the K&N will be binned today. The exhaust thread showed this was a mistake, but fully reverseable.
Still I feel the noise level could be a bit reduced for my liking and I am happy to convert the filter back.

Cosmetics are a personal preference. I never liked a full fairing on race bikes and a half fairing is way more convenient. The biggest drawback on a full fairing is the heat buildup warming the driver IMO.
Personally I am not keen to have the full wind on my torso and this screen helps a little bit but it's mainly cosmetic. To benefit from this fairing I should add clip ons but I am not open for this.

It's a 9-2010 model. It has been checked yesterday at TLM it needs to be rollerised sooner/later.
For this reason I'd consider the big bore and rollerise at the same time.
TLM state to have added big bore kits on quite a few GRiSO's. They do add a different mapping and after the break in it is advised to put her on a dyno.

foto's are of current state by mobile. the lens may distort a little and shows a sleeker bike...

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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:41 am

Last pics for now.

Yes, it'll need new fluids and some care to get her healthy again.
Still I'm happy I took her out on a small trip to enjoy her after a long nap.
I'm very happy I haven't decided to get rid of her and put some more effort in her.
She deserves it especially because I do not feel the need to trade her in.

I'll read through the threads over here to get to know a GRiSO better but bin the K&N first [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Regards, Erik

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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 24, 2023 3:56 am

Rollerisation is a must. Big boring will get you no more power but considerably more torque in the bottom end and midrange. I've built two1400's and have the makings of a third. All three, including the potential one, have been done different ways. None are simple. Having done it I've decided it isn't worth it for me but if you choose to go down the rabbit hole be prepared to spend a lot of money for not much extra in the way of outright power. The 8V motor is very limited in how much power it can produce. If you chase top end you will sacrifice its most marvellous characteristic which is its bottom end and midrange torque. The most you will get is five to eight rear wheel horsepower and why sacrifice the engine's strong points for that? It still won't be a 'Competitive' performance bike. It's too long. It's too heavy and it's woefully underpowered compared to anything else in its class offered by other manufacturers.

Love it for what it is. Not what it isn't.

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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 24, 2023 5:26 am

Thank you for your comment. I'll take it in consideration.
I'm not leaning to max speed and track use is out of my interest. Having owned 900ss and Monster makes the purpose of a GRiSO very clear to me. For this reason I do prefer the MG community over Ducati!
If I had to chose between my GRiSO or Vespa gts300 this would be very tough...

It'll be rollerised and frankly, I feel I shouldn't ride this bike before setting these issues straight.
The big bore needs some more orientation. Mechanically it makes sense to do this along with the rollers but it needs time for consideration. I may ask at TLM for some costumer's feedback as well if it's worth the hassle.

Found the airbox but the filter is missing.
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 24, 2023 6:27 am

I always liked the look of that belly pan. I think it gives the GRiSO real track style look. Every once and a while I search around to see if I can find one but, like beetle says, they seem to be made of unobtanium.

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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 24, 2023 10:21 am

PilotJet wrote:
I always liked the look of that belly pan. I think it gives the GRiSO real track style look. Every once and a while I search around to see if I can find one but, like beetle says, they seem to be made of unobtanium.

You may be able to order here directly at Millepercento, but you may try at TLM where I bought my bike and parts.
I'm not able to post links within 7 days of membership...

Yes, the fairings make the GRiSO look more ...big. Not as impressive as a Magni but close enough for me Cool

Regards, Erik
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 24, 2023 4:43 pm

All I have to say is WOW!

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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:41 am

Gefeliciteerd met de aankoop. Hoewel de V7 er ook erg goed uitzag.
Groet,
Amstelveen

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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 25, 2023 12:27 pm

Thx!
Die V7 is echt super wat ik wilde, maar kreeg enorm last van mijn liezen op de snelweg door de smalle tank. Baalde er goed van en lang getwijfeld...
Ik heb hem al even hoor ,maar krijg nu pas weer ruimte om ervan te genieten, Als er wat aanpassingen zijn gedaan.
Ken jij mensen met een bigbore kit?

Dat is toevallig, heb ook nog een GTS300!
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 27, 2023 4:41 am

ErikdeBrabander wrote:
...The big bore needs some more orientation. Mechanically it makes sense to do this along with the rollers but it needs time for consideration.....

It may be worth checking if the correct roller kit is still available for your year of GRiSO - if not then the big bore kit may be the only way.
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 27, 2023 5:38 am

Kits for all flat tappet bikes are, at this time, still available.

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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 27, 2023 1:21 pm

HI Pete,
I gave the big bore kit some thought+reading and if I am correct it'll need some additional severe mods like correction of cilinder head spherical shape, twin sparks, crankshaft balancing and remapping...

Seems to be optional for a professional Guzzi mechanic but I'm not open to risk my GRiSO for a possible disaster in the making. Thanks for warning me.

I'll realise the High exhaust,original filter,rollerise,fluid change and additional mapping is the best route to get the best out of this bike. It'll be a prio before I'll take her outside again.

Kind regards, Erik
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 27, 2023 4:35 pm

Erik, the thing is if you use barrels and pistons off a 1400 motor the two engines use completely different cooling circuits for the oil. You need to machine new galleries in the heads and/or the barrels to mate the 1200 and 1400 parts together.

If your bike is an early model 1200 it will have thicker barrel spigots that can be re-bored and re-Nicasiled in theory but I haven't tried this yet, and probably won't. Anything made after mid 2010 will have the later barrels which for some reason have much thinner spigots which can't be bored. Needless to say all options require custom head gaskets. The combustion chamber volume of both engines is the same. The compression ratio is kept tolerable by the deck of the piston being lowered in the 1400.

Also taking the swept volume out larger than stock leads to overtaxing the breather system and massive oil expulsion problems, (This has been noted by several people who have been down the Big Bore rabbit hole.). Beetle seems to have finally got his one that we built to keep its oil where it belongs but it required radical re-plumbing of the breather system and an additional collector/condensor tank.

I personally think the effort involved isn't worth the grief. That doesn't mean others shouldn't do it but I do like to inform people so they can go in with their eyes wide open and realise it's not just a matter of slapping on a set of 1400 barrels and pistons and riding off into the sunset! Let's face it, if it was that simple lots of people would of done it over the years and single spark big bore hi-cams would be ten a penny. They aren't.

Also you not only need to re-map but mapping is made more complicated by the fact the gas flow rate of the 'Big Port' single spark heads is too high for the stock injectors so you need to fit injectors with a higher flow rate and adjust their pulse width accordingly or increase pressure in the fuel rail which would require modifying the PRV. That thought is Beetle's remit and I defer to his experience in all aspects of fuel control. That fact is something I haven't heard mentioned by many other builders of 'Big Bore' Hi-Cams and may explain why some of them have bloody carburettors fitted rather than fuel injection. God save us from carburettors!

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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 28, 2023 4:38 am

I just finished a 3 week 13,000 km trip on my well tuned and rollerized 2012 GRiSO with that same high mistral exhaust ..and Beetles map..The bike ran awesome and running at an average of 70-75 mph I got 210 km on every tank of gas before the fuel light came on..I couldn't be Happier

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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:19 am

kindoy2 wrote:
I just finished a 3 week 13,000 km trip on my well tuned and rollerized 2012 GRiSO with that same high mistral exhaust ..and Beetles map..The bike ran awesome and running at an average of 70-75 mph I got 210 km  on every tank of gas before the fuel light came on..I couldn't be Happier

210 km being 130 miles...this is where I'm at. getting from 34-38 to the gallon depending on conditions. In another thread perhaps, would love to see a GRiSO outfitted for an 8000 mile road trip...
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