GRiSO ghetto
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12425 - Established June, 2013 - all GRiSO, all the time...
 
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ErikdeBrabander
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Tue Apr 16, 2024 8:55 am

I haven't ordered the Oberon slave because I can live with the original clutch force but wanted to add some more comfort. Luckely I didn't spend my money on that (thx!).

The mechanic only modified the heads and engine oil change. Because he is a carb guy We thought it's best to leave it as it is now but I'll find some way to get it mapped properly once all bills have been paid [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Still I need it back home to proceed. Weather is terrible this week so no hurry.

The Beeline Moto2 nav should be available end of april and I am leaning toward this device. I like the dimensions and mounting locations.

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ErikdeBrabander
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Wed Apr 24, 2024 12:08 pm

Short update,

Just received pics from my mechanic and thought they are pretty nice to share.
It's rollerised but hardly any visual difference only a date stamp on the new internals.
The new Avon tires are not shown here.

Due to bad weather delivery date set early next week.

Spend some time searching for some com and nav systems and I think I'll settle for the coming Beeline Moto2 (small disc display) and Twiins HF3 (inside helmet, It seems in Luxemburg you'll be forced to use alternative transport and a fine when a communication system is sticky taped on the outside of the helmet. I'm not travelling to a different country on a regular base but I'm not keen to study local laws before leaving home...)
Total investment is a friendly budget and easy to upgrade if needed depending on the groups I might join later.

kr, Erik

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ErikdeBrabander
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Wed Apr 24, 2024 12:10 pm

rollerised head:
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ErikdeBrabander
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Tue Apr 30, 2024 12:55 pm

She's home again!

Made a small drive approx 20km in the evening and had to get used to the tires. The Michelins feel harder to corner at low speeds but the Avons appear to corner very easy, Or it's all placebo because I haven't driven her for a few months.

However, starting at idle sounded very rich and didn't rev up as easy but after 15minutes the horrible smell of petrol faded away en she ran pretty well and cornering at low rpm is way more easier now. I'm looking forward for new mapping in future.



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ErikdeBrabander
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Sun May 12, 2024 2:17 pm

kindoy2 wrote:


Welcome in Amstelveen for installing a Beetle Map.
(but first rollerize)

Ed

Thanks Ed for helping me adding the new Beetle map! How great this forum is meeting helpfull members!

The GRiSO runs like a charm right now. Without the map it ran like a carburetted engine on a choke at the start and with thottle off the exhaust farts like a lazy Harley.
Now it starts and revs easely without choking and throttle off gearing down is very smooth, just gliding through corners leaving the highways.
The only thing I do notice when trying from cruising to accelerate fast there is a slight delay. I recon the leaner mapping is the cause but the result of a smoother engine when cornering in urban settings is a treat!
I always felt at roundabouts the GRiSO is a handfull to master but now it corners like a charm at low rpm.

Best money spend on the GRiSO!

greets!

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Jankes
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Tue May 14, 2024 5:39 am

Hello! Nice white 1200, I have the same tires, but since I'm not an aggressive rider, it's hard for me to judge their properties compared to Michelin, Metzeler, or Pirelli, so I'm glad you chose them. quite good compared to Michelin.
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Tue May 14, 2024 8:01 pm

Jankes wrote:
Hello! Nice white 1200, I have the same tires, but since I'm not an aggressive rider, it's hard for me to judge their properties compared to Michelin, Metzeler, or Pirelli, so I'm glad you chose them. quite good compared to Michelin.



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Viva la Fiesta

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ErikdeBrabander
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Wed May 15, 2024 8:39 am

Hi Jankes!

I'm not an agressive driver as well but these Avons look great on the GRiSO!
The only noticeable difference with the former Michelins I had is the compound is much softer but feel similar when cornering...for me. As for milage reviews are positive.

Too bad Avon stopped production december 2023.

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Tim Henry
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Wed May 15, 2024 9:29 am

Check out Shinko Ravens great tire at a great price and excellent wear
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ErikdeBrabander
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Wed May 15, 2024 1:28 pm

Those look pretty nice as well! Thumbs Up
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Wed May 15, 2024 2:59 pm

Lots of miles and I ride daily
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BetaSteve
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Thu May 16, 2024 1:06 pm

Pete
What’s the feasibility of installing a 1400 from a California or other model that uses one as an oe lump?
Obviously you’d need to source it relatively cheap from a wrecker, theft recovery or? Seems if it fit a lot of the oil and fueling issues would be eliminated. I regularly ride with a 1400 owner and it’s amazing how he pulls away from me if I don’t downshift!
Erik
Individual taste is a personal thing, that said I wouldn’t want the cosmetic changes you’ve done but love the one off efforts! Accept the GRiSO for it’s shortcomings as well as the great bike it is - if not, add a better suited bike to your garage, nothing wrong with owning two, three, six or more bikes. One buddy has 15, that might be a little over the top…
Not all bikes need to be Guzzi, or even Italian, but that’s the way I tend to lean…

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On two wheels anyway… highly doubtful an Italian car will ever live here.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Thu May 16, 2024 4:30 pm

You can stick a 1400 motor in easily enough but it doesn't work without a lot of effort.

Apart from the immediately obvious differences like the 1400 motor having smaller intake ports and twin plugs the cooling circuits are completely different between the 1200 and 1400 models. The real difference that is most problematic though is the fact that the phase sensor and phonic wheel are different between the two models and the way the signal is interpreted by the W5AM and the 7SM controllers seems to be completely different. The sensor is also in a different location so when you swap to the 1200's phonic wheel and sensor it's a huge embuggerance and very hard to seal.

I basically used a 1400 motor in the engine I built for my Stelvio but swapped to big port, single spark 1200 heads. It was a LOT of screwing around.

The reason your mate's 1400 will pull away from you in roll-ons is because the port shape is better for cylinder fill at lower rpm than the big port heads. The thing is though they run out of the ability to flow at higher crank speeds and volumetric efficiency falls off. This is why the 1400's actually produce less outright HP than the 1200's, everything else about them, valve size, cam profile etc. is identical between the two motors. You can overcome this as Mark will attest by careful mapping but as I'm sure he'll tell you to get his bike to where it is now took an enormous amount of time and effort. He's also swapped to a single 60mm(?) throttlebody and plenum set-up on his machine but the development time was astronomical, not to mention the cost!

The real reason we collaborated on the two 1400 projects was purely down to both of us being inquisitive, (And, undoubtably, a little bit mad! Laughing ) it certainly wasn't an easy or cheap experiment and I'm afraid that having done the work we've done we KNOW with absolute certainty that the claims some others make for vast increases in power and torque are utter piffle.

As I've said before the Hi-Cam is limited by several factors. The most important of which are it's camming, it's included valve angle and it's side draft aspiration. The last two you can't really do much about and the camming would open up a whole other can of worms as if you were to attempt to use something more aggressive you would invariably need to use stronger valve springs. The necks of the valves are very thin to reduce reciprocating weight and frictional losses through the valvetrain but this also renders them fragile. There is a reason the exhaust valve seats have cooling galleries around them and I've seen enough Hi-Cams with dropped valves to know how close to the ragged edge of reliability they run in standard trim. Increase the power output and you will also increase waste heat. That has to be dumped somehow. The only way valves can dump heat is through the margin/seat interface when the valve is closed and through the stem/guide interface. The length of the stem betwixt head, (Where most of the heat is absorbed.) and the guide is quite long, and because of the port design of the 1200 single spark heads it is greater than that of the 1400's so they are even more marginal. Wilder cam and stronger springs and you'll have engines shedding valve heads like confetti! Yes, you could probably get lighter, higher quality valves but the rules of diminishing returns rapidly come into play. The simple fact is people who are claiming 130HP out of a Hi-Cam, of any capacity are either fantasists or charlatans. In most cases I think probably both.

The larger the motor's swept volume the greater the problems with crankcase pressurisation and oil expulsion as well. As I said. A total can of worms.

I actually have all the makings for another 1400 motor sitting around at home. Originally I thought I was going to build one for Yellow Bike but you know what? I'm nearly 70, I very, very rarely ride at full throttle to redline any more. In fact I'd think the amount of time I spend at more than 60% throttle anywhere would be extremely limited! So why in the name of all that's holy would I make a rod for my back and set about building another 1400??? I may be mad but I'm not completely fucking loopy!

Also, whatever way you look at it GRiSO is a huge pig of a bike by contemporary standards. If I wanted 130HP I'd buy a Tuono! 130RWHP straight out of the box and you need to leave a brick on the seat when you park it to stop it blowing away in a light breeze! Brilliant! Unfortunately you also need a box of licences like a box of 'Pictionary' question cards to own one because the wallopers will be relieving you of them on an almost daily basis! Very Happy

I do know that one of the more highly respected US shops, Hamlins maybe(?) has stuck a couple of 1400's into Breva 1100 chassis but I know nothing of the details or what ECU/Throttlebody combination they used so they might be a useful source of info.

I hope that helps.
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Thu May 16, 2024 9:37 pm

There you have it folks… if we needed further proof of an All Things Guzzi world class expert in our midst then there it is.
Pete, I had owned a Tuono for many years with my ‘09 because I felt them vastly superior to the all too common Ducati of the era. Semi related funny story: before purchasing the Tuono at Moto I, the GRiSO really intrigued me. Ultimately +60lbs and -30hp led me to the Tuono wondering who would pick GRiSO over Tuono? Craziness! Fast forward 11 years and I’m at SUB buying a GRiSO in need of a fair amount of work and there in the same showroom sits a very similar Tuono to the one I used to own, while I’m left, amusingly enough, to wonder who would choose Tuono over GRiSO?
But the V4 1100’s single mindedness has turned them not only too popular but(t) ugly too.
Hence the Brutale - sexy, fast and rare.
Street, you and the other PNW locals will recognize my thinly veiled dealership abbreviations, I wonder if anyone else will?
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ErikdeBrabander
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Fri May 17, 2024 3:05 am

BetaSteve wrote:

Individual taste is a personal thing, that said I wouldn’t want the cosmetic changes you’ve done but love the one off efforts! Accept the GRiSO for it’s shortcomings as well as the great bike it is - if not, add a better suited bike to your garage, nothing wrong with owning two, three, six or more bikes. One buddy has 15, that might be a little over the top…
Not all bikes need to be Guzzi, or even Italian, but that’s the way I tend to lean…

Not even a handfull of people mentioned my GRiSO isn't their cup of tea Laughing

I bet you'd change your mind on those shortcomings if you only had 8500km on your GRiSO like mine has now, me noticing it ended up as a hangar queen because of the other projects I enjoy as well. For me downsizing stock seems to be a better match while I am aging.
This GRiSO ended up as a hangar queen due to a divorce hence the low milage. I'm happy to have it and still keen on this model because it isn't a "new edge" design which to me, age not too well.

Keep in mind the GRiSO is out of production for quite some time, many have good milage on them and maintenance experience knowing their weak spots. Mine has barely been broken in and it does deserve some weaknesses to be improved. Especially if one realises this Euro5 character and sound may never be produced again. It's a keeper. Even after the rollerisation and Beetle map (+specs) it's vocal presence is spot on!
If it had 30+K on it I wouldn't take the effort to go the extra mile.

As for now, my wishlist is a Beeline Moto2 (still not available), Roadlok, oil thermostat and gauge.
Today getting me some chrome gold wrap for the front fairing "window" area to be covered.

kr, Erik


Last edited by ErikdeBrabander on Fri May 17, 2024 8:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Fri May 17, 2024 3:46 am

??? Getting a bit defensive there Erik? Just because someone says they don't like your cosmetic changes isn't a reason to get all huffy! My bike used to be tree-frog green and vivid blue! Everybody, and I mean everybody hated it.

Just relax. Nobody is saying you've done anything *Wrong* you do you.
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Fri May 17, 2024 5:17 am

You’re correct about Hamlin’s and the 1400 conversions. He ‘specializes’ in the CARC series and his attention to detail is otherworldly. He’s brought bikes to the Kentucky Rally each of the last few years, including one of his 1400 conversions. I was certain I had photos to share but they’re not coming up.

If that’s an itch you want to scratch, Steve, I’d say his Facebook history has a lot of info. He doesn’t seem to keep much of an online presence aside from occasional dumps of project photos on there, at least nowhere that I frequent.
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ErikdeBrabander
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Fri May 17, 2024 8:45 am

Hi Pete,
Reread the post and edited. My bad...

Just finished wrapping the front shield. I definately have get to get used to this new look.
The bottom edge putsa lot of stress on the vynil I may have to trim it a bit more if it peels off too much.

One could warm up this vynil to stretch it a considerable amount but the surface gets dull easely. This part has completely thumbled and stretched. Quite a PITA.

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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Fri May 17, 2024 10:34 am

I'd appreciate a right side (non exhaust side) photo of the bike, from say, 7 meters or so. Straighten your handlebars. I'd like to get a better sense of the lines you've created. As others have mentioned, I admire the passion for the project and the time and resources you've spent bringing it together. And more importantly, that you got it running well!

And yeah, Pete, that green was...well, it was something.
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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Sat May 18, 2024 7:26 am

Enjoy! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

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PostSubject: Re: Barn find, Netherlands!   Barn find, Netherlands! - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Tue May 21, 2024 12:45 am

That’s it exactly. Thanks!

Nice. Love the old font on the chin fairing.

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