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rboe
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PostSubject: Roller conversions   Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:15 pm

Been wondering if a poll could be done where we could get a handle on flat tappet upgrades to roller tappets. Say how many have done rollerization on their own dime, ones done and paid for by Piaggio (full or kit only), those that are in the queue, and those who won't because it's just not an issue.

I'm in the queue.
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little750
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:34 pm

Did mines last week 18-11-15 it was going to be a winter job but already done. I paid for the parts myself and did the job myself with guidance from this form.
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Converted Duc
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:08 am

Have not done mine yet but after reading the forums and listening to horror stories I am getting rather nervous....
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Conor W
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:10 am

All done on own coin (previous owner didn't have service history). Job done by thunderbikes here in Perth. Wouldn't want to have left it for any longer once rattle started. A few problems now but not to do with the conversion.
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Guzzi Cat
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:26 pm

Will be doing mine shortly as a preventive investment (plan on keeping her a long time) Bike is running great but the consensus out there seems to favour the upgrade.
I'll be doing and paying for it myself. No Guzzi dealers round here!!! study
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Daves-i-Know
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:30 pm

Just had mine looked at during a scheduled tune up. Apparently they look fine.

I'm only at the 7500km mark, mind you. As has been stated , Piaggio wont cough up

unless its a documented issue that they sign off on, so I'm in the 'wait and see' category.

That's the 'wait and see if it blows up, then give us a ring' category.... confused
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:36 pm

Daves-i-Know wrote:
Just had mine looked at during a scheduled tune up. Apparently they look fine.

I'm only at the 7500km mark, mind you. As has been stated , Piaggio wont cough up

unless its a documented issue that they sign off on, so I'm in the 'wait and see' category.

That's the 'wait and see if it blows up, then give us a ring' category.... confused

So was a cambox removed and disassembled or was it simply a 'Sounds OK, She'll be sweet! Analysis.

Pete
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rboe
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:25 am

My mechanic thought they looked fine too but I said the pics (he did the full disassembly) he showed me looked a lot like the the failing bits posted here and else where so he said he would send them to the Mother ship.

Piaggio approved the free kit - I get to pay, again, to pull it apart and install the kit. I figure it's still cheaper than waiting for it to shit. Then the bill becomes very big.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:45 pm

That concerns me. I wonder how many others have said 'they look fine' when they aren't. Any discoloration should be treated as suspect. It ain't paint wearing off, it's the DLC.
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mark111
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:42 pm

If my experience is anything to go by don't f@#k around and wait until there is noticeable wear otherwise you will end up with a massive repair bill which Piaggio won't help you with. The end result could be major crank damage which could cost as much to repair as your bike is worth. Even the option of selling it is pointless as it will be worth nothing unless you have no morals and lie to any prospective buyer.
Fortunately for me mine was a last gasp recovery and some quality mechanical work resulted in only a large repair bill and not a catastrophic one, another couple of 1000 kms and I would have had a bike that would have been parted out on EBay.
My primary beef with this whole saga is that Piaggio have basically shit on 8 valve owners and are morally corrupt in their dealings with this long known engine problem. Were I not a fan of these bikes (GRiSO) I would never touch their products again.
I know they are not unique in the automotive/motorcycle Industry but this does not absolve them of responsibility for this fucking mechanical disaster and the very least they should have done is supply the roller kit parts for all flat tapper engines.
I wish I could say this rant makes me feel better but it doesn't and likely never will, I am just thankful there are some decent people related to this brand.
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MrBob
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:48 pm

After a brief inspection at 30,000K's, and pix sent to pete, the results were not so good, So, I will also be joining the queue.

Probably safer not being on the roads during xmas holidays anyway.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:11 pm

Yup, Mr. Bob sent me a very good pic I'll post up later showing a 'Recessed' flat tappet which is a very good indicator that the damage is done. It's not acceptable to the factory as evidence but it s a useful diagnostic tool for owners.

Pete
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:18 pm

How many Kms on yours now Boboroonie ?
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MrBob
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:09 pm

29600K's, which IMO is crazy small milage for failure of parts on ANY modern engine….

My Briggs and Stratton 15hp pump is 12 years old and has been underwater 5 or 6 times, change oil and fuel, and away she goes again…go figure.
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Omnis
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:19 pm

my 2012 Tenni Green has 33500Kms, still on flat tappets all good. Will have heads off check done in the spring by my local Guzzi dealer. Will report then.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:52 pm

Heads don't need to come off to check. It's really not a hard job. This is why I'm encouraging people to have its done.

Pete
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WCB
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:50 am

rboe wrote:
Been wondering if a poll could be done where we could get a handle on flat tappet upgrades to roller tappets. Say how many have done rollerization on their own dime, ones done and paid for by Piaggio (full or kit only), those that are in the queue,  and  those who won't because it's just not an issue.

I'm in the queue.

Both my wife's GRiSO and my Stelvio done. Both well outside of warranty, both had parts provided gratis by Guzzi, installed on my dime.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:51 pm

MrBob wrote:
After a brief inspection at 30,000K's, and pix sent to pete, the results were not so good, So, I will also be joining the queue.

Probably safer not being on the roads during xmas holidays anyway.

Good news for you Meester Bob. I got confirmation yesterday that Dave's bike that I had used my 'Spare' 'C'-Kit in had been approved for warranty. A quick scrabble on the importer's website revealed that they still had 'a' C-kit in stock so I got straight on the blower and begged them to rush the authorisation through so the kit could be assigned to MEEEEE!

Five minutes of toadying and brown-tongueing later and an email drops into my inbox saying it's being despatched on Monday! cheers they means it should be here by Tuesday! cheers Which means if you trailer your bike down Wednesday and can stay for a couple of nights in the area I should, all other things being good, be able to have your bike ready to take away on Friday! The only reason it won't be Thursday is because I have a recurring health problem that flares up from time to time and at the moment I'm limited to about four hours work a day before the pain becomes unbearable. Just make sure I get pics of the service history and we'll be golden!

Just checked the parts site again. C-kit is back 'On order' so fuknose when the next lot will arrive! Sad

Pete
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rboe
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:55 pm

On the phone with my mechanic. Kit is in hand but he wants to replace the head gaskets too (which did not come with the kit). Not knowing if replacing them is good, bad or what I figure it can't hurt.  Plus I want a sump gasket for flushing when I get bike back. Progress.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:20 pm

If your bike is a 'B' kit engine you really don't need to replace the head gaskets, that's why they aren't in the kit. To replace them you need to remove the headers and disconnect the inlet manifolds so you'll need those gaskets too. The head gaskets are laminated steel and incompressible. As long as the aren't disturbed when the cambox is removed it is very unlikely they will leak.

Pete
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rboe
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:22 pm

2012 GRiSO. Thanks for the heads up.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:26 pm

Does it have the 'Floating' valve covers with the 'Short' plug tube that only goes between the head and cambox? If so make sure your mechanic knows that the o-ring in the cambox is NOT installed at the factory and if you forget this oil will piss out everywhere and it will chuff like a steam engine!

Guess how I know this? Very Happy

Pete
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rboe
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:35 pm

I have no idea. This and the Quota are the only Guzzi's have owned or worked on. The only oil seal I can recall seeing when I adjusted the valves were the large rings that the fasteners of the valve cover pass through.

But I'll pass this on to Steve. While a very long time Guzzi and Ducati mechanic, I got the impression this was his first Tappet Conversion (if I did it, it would be my first too, but after replacing the head on a '76 Pinto and mucking with the damned tooth timing belt, and not really having a proper covered shop to do the work in I begged off - besides, I'm considering trading the GRiSO in at some point - no hurry, the bike is finally sorted to where we get along pretty well, and it may help if he knows he's done all the work). Smile
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Blue
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:34 am

Getting twitchy reading all this. My Tenni has 9k on it and I was told the tappits were fine in July. The servicing guy knows his stuff. Have only put on a few miles since. I reckon I need to see for myself now what the top of the tappits look like.

I think I will end up buying the kit and just get it done.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Roller conversions   Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:02 am

Why buy it if you can claim it?

Yes, the whole FSH thing is a wank but legally it gives them an out, (You do realise that all claims are approved or denied in Italy? Don't blame your dealer or even importer.)

If you have records just ask your shop, if you trust them, to pull a cambox or both and examine them. In all honesty I think there will be wear visible, (Ask for pics!).

As I keep saying it's NOT a big task unless you fuck up and bust a cam chain tensioner, (Hi Mark! :waving:) and therefore shouldn't cost a fortune!

It's a gamble. Pay for the kit. End of problem but expensive.

Pay small amount for inspection and its odds on you'll get a kit, if you have a FSH.

At the end of the day the most you can gamble is the cost of the inspection. If your tappets are fucked? Well, early detection may save your engine! If you have a FSH you get the kit and from there you're up for the install.

If they are fine, which I think highly unlikely nowadays! then I would still advise rollerisation on your own dime but all you've lost is that small amount of money for inspection.

Look, all this is just *Advice* from some twonk on the Internet. Do whatever you think fit but if it does cost you a motor? Please, don't say you weren't advised.

Pete
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