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 Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions

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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:55 am

That is a beautiful looking thing.

But its more than £200 delivered

and it doesn't solve the spring rate or increase the stroke of the shock

but it is a lovely looking piece of kit
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:23 pm

But it does alter the rising rate ratio, so now we move into the 5th dimension of suspension tuning.
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Nobleswood
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:22 pm

Saw this last night:

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Wondering if anyone has used this shock or have opinions about it ? Ghezzi?
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:33 am

'When Matris build their shocks they take all the information they have available (rider weight and type of riding use as well as what they know about the bike itself), and they set up the shock to what they believe will be the best all round solution given the information. Given Matris’ considerable expertise in this field, most people to whom we supply their products are very happy with the supplied settings, however sometimes adjustments will need to be made.'

Doesnt really explain why a 78kg rider and a 103kg rider are supplied with the same 135N spring rate.

'suggest setting the Compression at 14-16 clicks and the Rebound at 20 clicks'

'and optimum sag between 40mm and 45mm'

I'll have a play with it at the weekend and see what the result is.
Biketorque will offer an exchaneg Spring - but only once - and say that Matris stick by their recommendation of 135N.

Pete Roper could you tell me what Spring rate you have and your weight? And what spring rate anyone else with a Matris might have along with their weight?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:22 am

When I swap it out, sure. I don't have the time or, unfortunately the health, to do it right away.

I always thought I had a pretty good grasp on suspension but I'm learning a lot from people like Wayne and Sdrat.
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:39 am

Well from what I have gleaned from the forums;
Standard shock - 9.7kg spring - rate generally considered good for up to 85kg rider.
Many seem happy between 85kg and 100kg with 11.7kg spring
Over 100kgs slightly unknown - but 11.7kgs +
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:24 am

*****UPDATE*****
Ok, so i put almost 300 miles on it now and made a change.

Previously if you have read the thread i ran GRiSO with the standard shock, with no static sag and the front forks dropped to the 5th Ring. It steered lovely, its what makes it such an underrated star. Problems like ground clearance soft rear spring and slapping bars made me put the Stelvio shock in, with settings outlined previously.

It solved most of the problems, but i don't like the steering, that natural neutral steering has gone and instead it pushes the front tyre and takes more effort, the rest is great, but i really wanted the steering sensation back. Today raised the front end from 5 rings showing back to 2 rings and low and behold the steering is back to its wondrous self.

So now i now have a GRiSO that is simply an inch higher at the back and 3/4 inch higher at the front, the steering is great, ground clearance endless, no saggy back end with the stringer spring and still no flapping of the bars when pushed, i am very happy. As you can see from the piccy it just looks like an ordinary GRiSO but on tip toes.

Its also back to the original riding position too and you are not pushed into the tank.

I will now make up something to increase the length of the side stand, as the picture doesn't show how much it now leans over!


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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:01 pm

Win Win Thumbs Up
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GHTE
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:50 pm

Guys, I am keen to obtain a second hand Stelvio shock. I had one on my previous GRiSO 850 and loved it and I am sure my new to me 1100 will also benefit. Please PM me if there is one out there./
Many thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:15 pm

I'm thinking the same thing & will keep a look out on craigslist/ebay etc
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:11 am

Not having much luck finding a Stelvio shock, but I do see a few Aprilia Tuono shocks on Fbay which look to be the same.

So asking those with more knowledge of the specifications; any ideas about the eye to eye length, spring rate etc of the Tuono Sachs shocks ?
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:24 pm

I think you would need to find oe and measure it, the problem with the GRiSO is that there is not a lot of room for the schock, hence the smaller diameter springs. Let me know what you find and i will try and help.
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:00 am

sidrat wrote:

I will now make up something to increase the length of the side stand, as the picture doesn't show how much it now leans over!

I had a similar problem with a BMW I raised. Carried a small block of wood with a string (loop it around your grip and no bending over to pick it up) until I came up with a permanent solution. A problem I had w/ the BMW was that the stock return spring strength or angle was too weak for a longer stand, which would move enough on larger impacts to trigger the ignition cutoff switch.

Law of unintended consequences - fix one problem and create another...
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:41 am

EricS wrote:


Law of unintended consequences - fix one problem and create another...

The good thing in this instance is that i have solved more problems than i have created :-)

As a note, i am going to live with the stand
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:01 am

Looking at this pic; I can see the shock looks similar to the Sachs unit on the GRiSO, compression adjustment  on the top. On the bottom is an adjustment of sorts, what does that do ?[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:15 am

Bottom black bit is 'rebound' and the two nuts are length adjustment....
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:16 am

assuming your bottoms on the right hand side Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:54 am

Cheers
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pauldaytona
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:16 pm

the tuono's aren't that long I think.  You can also look at the rsv4 ohlins, but don't have lenght at hand.
I got Wilbers for the Stelvio and had them mounted at a suspensionshop here, never touched it, and they are great. Much more comfort without being softer. Can drive faster on same bad pavement.
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:02 am

There are plenty of disparaging remarks about the Matris shock - well the Matris spring rate supplied - and Biketorque's poor customer service BUT now that I have had some time to fiddle about I have made real improvements. As supplied the shock was set up very hard with only 19mm overall sag from Static unloaded bike (rear wheel off the ground) to rider sat on it. Matris advised via Biketorque that ideally the shock should have 40mm - 45mm sag. I backed off 4 full (360 degree) turns (which I think equals 4mm, each thread being 1mm as I understand it) on the preload and set the compresion to 16 clicks out and the rebound to 20 clicks out (both as recommended by Matris) and then remeasured sag which was now 42mm overall (preload approx 10mm from top of lock ring to top of threaded body). Went for a ride and it was far far better, still on the firm side and definitely a sporty ride (no BMW GS) but now feels like i have some, admittedly firm, suspension movement. I have since backed off 2 more clicks on both comp (now 18 out) and rebound (now 22 out) and seems a tad smoother over the bumps.
I am running the shock at max length which is 329mm eye to eye.
Front fork springs now changed and running K-tech springs 9.5nm and k-tech valves. Forks at 2 rings showing, preload 5 rings showing (6th ring flush with top of fork body) and 2.25 turns out on comp, and 16 out on rebound. Feels very planted and tracks accurately. The ride height doesnt appear to be quite as high as it was when I first fitted the Matris when I felt 'perched' on the top, maybe it has settled down now that I've done 400 miles and maybe the recent changes to shock set up mean it also settles down more, but I dont feel there is any issue over the side stand length or lean angle at rest. Fork travel with the previous 9nm springs was almost bottoming out under hard braking but now with the 9.5nm springs seems to have 10-12mm travel left which will reduce i think if I ever need to make an emergency stop.
I will try and fit a tie-wrap as a tell tale on the Matris as I would like to see what sort of travel I have at the rear. Will update you in due course.
My test route is Linkenholt, Hampshire via Upton/Wildhern/Charlton/Andover and then back on the A343 via Hurstbourne Tarrant to Linkenholt, so a mix of twisty single track lanes with bumpy tarmac through Farmland and some fairly open A road with fast bends about 20 mile round trip which seems to give a wide variety of road surface, bumps, fast and slow corners etc. Matris is definitely 'firm' but really responds to every small adjustment.
Paul Brice I think if you have backed off the preload to zero and still cant get the 40mm-45mm overall sag then you will need the softer spring - wish I had ordered with hydraulic preload adjuster but based on Biketorque advice that every Matris was bespoke built to the customers weight and riding it would fit and not need any specialsit set up so I thought the hydraulic adjuster would be a waste of money! Wrong!
Planning a trip to British MotoGP which is approx 140 mile round trip with single lanes, A roads and Motorway which should give me more Matris testing miles and take it from there.
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:20 am

Looks like you are getting somewhere now :-)

My only input is that i found with increasing the ride heigth at the rear, meant that i had to also increase the ride height at the front to get back a really nice steering feel. I increased the rear ride height by 25mm and increased the front by 20mm and it steers great and doesnt flap the bars.

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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:34 am

My GRiSO arrived 2nd hand with front forks showing 2 rings out from the top yoke. I have had them out twice to go to k-tech once for 9nm springs and their valves and then again to go to 9.5nm springs and each time refitted with the same 2 rings showing above the top yoke. Matris fitted at max length which is 329mm eye to eye, so about 9mm more than standard shock. At first it did seem high at the back and my 16 yr old even commented that it looked too high at the rear but now seems to have settled down and I think the adjustment to preload, and damping mean it sits a little lower. It feels very planted - as it did as standard - and changes direction easily for a long wheelbase steed. I will keep altering the damping on the shock to see if i can get it any better but handling seems excellent with more ground clearance than I will ever need on the Queens Highway.
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:07 am

Good to hear progress Brendon. I've done same as you (except just minor upgrade at front end) and got to 'best I can with what I have' but still feel it would use a softer rear spring so will go for that. 100% agree on the manual adjustment as I had exactly same discussion that started with "you don't need hydraulic adjuster if you don't carry pillion very often" and ended with a pain in the arse to constantly adjust the damn thing on the bike stand as ongoing 'experiment' - wish I spent the extra money too.

After playing with rear length I'm back with a minimal extra few mm and feel it is better there...

Good luck getting a tie around the Matris without disassembling the dog bone; I had to take it all apart just to adjust the rear height Very Happy .

Thanks for keeping us posted on progress and keep it coming
Paul
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:21 am

I will try my skills with two pairs of tweezers and a tie-wrap and see if I can get one round the shock shaft. It has been useful to have one on the front fork leg and see the exact travel and i think will be interesting to see what the rear travel is too.
I will continue to try and optimise the Matris with 135nm spring as recent adjustment has made real improvement but I am not ruling out changing the spring.
As Matris recommend 40-45mm overall sag and you seem unable to get that with the shock as supplied you might have a case to demand that Biketorque remove the shock and refit a more suitable spring to achieve the recommended sag. The shock is an excellent bit of kit but only really works if you can get the right sag set up. Recent test miles are positive but I need more test mileage.
Incidentally I highly recommend K-tech, super efficient, excellent customer service, swapped the 9nm for 9.5nm springs at no cost even covered the ParcelForce charges, and are happy to give sound advice on set up over the phone - the original 9nm springs used almost all the travel and k-tech happily went through set up over the phone, adding preload and comp etc to optimise it. Really top service I thought. If I didn't already have a Matris I would be asking K-tech if they could supply a shock for the GRiSO!
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions   Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:27 am

the Stelvio shock comes with an hydraulic adjuster as standard...... just saying Razz
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