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 Throttle Body balancing

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bradbusa
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:12 pm

Logic tells me this is something the dealer should be doing before releasing a bike to a new customer, no?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:25 pm

Part of my PD on new bikes is checking valve lash and performing a TB balance and TPS re-set. Many shops just bung in the battery and a few litres of gas and that's it. It's no wonder some customers are unhappy.

I had a 2008 G8 in yesterday. It hadn't got a huge mileage on it, only about 12,000 the owner thought but the dash had been voltage spiked and the odometer now read nearly 300,000km! It also didn't have a mode screen which was a pain. Thing is this poor old thing was supposed to of had its 10,000 km service done by a shop in Melbourne. Only the tappet covers had never been off I don't think and all the valves were out by a fair bit. Both the air bleeds were wide open and the oils that came out of everywhere were filthy and water contaminated! I'm certain the only 'Servicing' it had ever recieved was an engine oil change at some point!

What really riles me is that it's so EASY to service and tune a Guzzi correctly! Why wouldn't you do it properly? If there places are screwing Guzzi owners over imagine what happens to people with an RSV-4 or the like???

Pete
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bradbusa
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:54 pm

that's really disheartening to hear Pete. i have grown to be very distrusting of "professionals" in the service industry. it's partially why i got into it myself! i just dont trust anyone to wrench on my vehicles
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:49 pm

I have Stucci crash bars and had to modify the 4 and 5 mm hex keys to access the bleed screws and manifold bungs. The 5 mil could do with a bit more of a tweek at the ball end. Very Happy

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Tolle09
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:38 am

I'm learning in this department too, where can you obtain the Guzzidiag equipment ? On ebay can be found Ducatidiag which refers to it being suitable for Guzzi's , is this correct?
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little750
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:43 am

Just google guzzidiag you should end up here [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:53 am

Best place for cables is [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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bradbusa
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:12 am

I went out last night and had a look at my TB's. The 5mm brass looking screws on the bottom of each TB appear to be pretty snugged down (tightened). A 1/16th of a turn and then back of each one shouldn't really affect the balance too much, should it? I wasn't expecting them to turn.
Bike still runs great and idles smoothly at cold start and warm temps
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f-man
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:51 am

In the german Guzzi Forum Beard recommend these cables

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Both fits very well.


Sven

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:19 am

bradbusa wrote:
I went out last night and had a look at my TB's. The 5mm brass looking screws on the bottom of each TB appear to be pretty snugged down (tightened). A 1/16th of a turn and then back of each one shouldn't really affect the balance too much, should it? I wasn't expecting them to turn.
Bike still runs great and idles smoothly at cold start and warm temps

Well it depends. If the balance is correct both at speed and at idle then 1/16th of a turn will make little difference, that much off closed is unlikely to effect things sufficiently to confuse the stepper. BUT, without connecting a manometer or balance tool you can't tell how close to accurately synced the TB's are.

Pete
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FrogGuzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:20 am

Hi Guys,
soorry to dig up an old post, but I just need a bit more info on the balancing procedure...

If I treat myself to a Carbtune, where do I stick the tubes, is there a nipple on the TBs ?

So if I resume :

Engine to temp
GuzziDiag connected
Carbtune (or similar) connected (WHERE?)
Close RH Cylinder air-bleed screw
Close LH Cylinder air-bleed screw
Balance level of carbtune ONLY with Bell-crank screw and not Linkage rod.
Reset TPS
Take bike out for spin ;.)

Thanks for your help,
Steve

PS : TB Balance is not going to be a daily thing to do, so instead of forking out €70.00 for a carbtune, does the clear plastic tube with stroke oil in it actually work, and is it precise?





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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:49 am

Whatever form of manometer you use it connects to the two ports on the manifolds just forward of the throttle bodies. In the US these have small spigots that attatch to the charcoal canister/vapor recovery system. In most markets they are simply blanked off with dome head 6mm screws with alloy washers.

The only step you missed is after you have done the high speed balance and re-set the TPS you then balance at idle by opening the air bleed on whichever side has the highest manifold depression until both sides are equal.

Pete

PS. An oil filled manometer will work and can even be reasonably accurate as long as the balance isn't initially so far out as to allow the fluid to be sucked into the engine. The thing that I always find a trifle strange is that anyone who can afford a $20,000 motorbike would baulk at paying a few bucks to get a simple, accurate, clean and risk free tool to tune it! scratch

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FrogGuzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:57 am

Hi Pete,
I have had a fish around and have found the ports to which connect the Carbtune, here is a pic for others :

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Many thanks for your help,
Steve

PS : I'd much prefer spending €70.00 on a tool that is going to get a bit more use than once every blue moon Very Happy
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wardentm
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:10 am

Yes, but the way I looked at it was that you only have to use it once to pay for it, so I bought it and used it. unless someone has one close by you could borrow off.
Cheers
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FrogGuzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:45 am

Wardentm,
your statement is absolutely true and yes I agree entierly !
I have never skimped on buying tools, but if an hours DIY with bits laying around in the workshop, and a couple of meters of clear tube bought at the local aquarium shop for a few euros can prove the point, why not give it a shot... hence my initial question.
Thanks for your feed back, i'll keep you posted with the setup if I get round to making it.
Cheers,
S.
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wardentm
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:19 pm

Hi S
I am sure on this site some time back someone posted in regards to making there own tube manometer, from memory those posted good success with them, only issue they can get a bit messy.
I bought the Carbtune, great and easy to use, no messing about.
Anyway, good luck with it.
Stay well and safe
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cachnutz
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:31 pm

Hey Everyone
New to this forum and thanks for all the knowledge I have gained lately.

So after searching the net, this site seams to have a vast amount of knowledge.
My new to me 2011 Norge 8v is in need of a TBS balance
I have purchased the proper cables, and have Guzzidiag

I have a homemade manometer that I was using on a previous bike and I feel it will work again.

My questions
- the previous pic by frogguzzi shows where to connect meter, great. Are these referred to as the "air bleeds" I have read "Firstly close both of the air bleeds on the throttle bodies" Or are the air bleeds somewhere else?
- since I am connecting to some clear tubing, what type of connector is suggested to fit between tube and manifold port? Mine are tightly plugged with an allen key screw. I have heard a brake nipple type fitting?

Im a little confused and dont want to mess it up, any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Chris
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:38 am

Make sure you triple check as there are screws that you musn't touch ever !; just a bell-crank adjuster (coarse balance/high speed balance) and the brass air bleeds (one closed, other adjust for idle) that you could touch to balance if needed.

- air bleeds are vertical allen key screws under each throttle bodies & hard to see
- For connecting the vacuum gauges or manometers you unscrew the two allen key headed bolts from the inlets (the ones in the picture from frogguzzi) and connect some screw in stubs that usually come with the gauges or kit - else you just buy some. Here eg are the Davida ones and they allow you to fit them permanently if you want as the original screw goes back into the top of the stub.Kits/gauges usually come with tubing to fit....
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Omnis
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:08 pm

Hey, Paulbrice where did you get those stubs that can be capped with the original screw?
Thanks
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:21 am

They came as standard with the pair of Davida gauges. I judge the 'avg balance needed for most conditions' by riding around with gauges attached & then adjust and recheck - works for me Very Happy
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:30 am

I should be more precise.....Davida supplies 6mm Manifold adaptors which have a 5mm threaded inlet which will take a 5 mm allen bolt (like the original but obviously NOT the originals which are 6mm).

You may be able to buy them separately as websites say 'replacement parts available' but I can't find any listed specifically.
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:33 am

Here they are: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:38 pm

I'm having trouble understanding why you would want to install an adapter to effectively raise the access hole by a few millimeters. Unless you already have the Davida Vaccum Gauges?

Or am I missing something here?
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https://guzzigander.com
paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:52 am

Because you need a 6mm threaded tube to fit the rubber pipe from the vacuum measurement onto - even if you use manometers you need to connect the rubber/plastic pipes with a 6mm threaded bobbin !
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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: Throttle Body balancing   Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:13 pm

I worded this wrong. I meant why do you need the 5mm internal threads, unless perhaps these are necessary for the Davida gauges? At 4.80 pounds, they're bloody expensive!
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