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 GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch

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richpardo
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richpardo

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PostSubject: GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch   GRiSO 1100  Noisy clutch Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:45 am

I've got a 2007 GRiSO that runs great and handles great and has a really noisy clutch when disengaged.

It engages smoothly and grips fine but makes a racket like a bucket of bolts when disengaged, meaning the clutch lever is depressed.

The previous owner said it always sounded this way, so can you guys let me know if other's GRiSO 1100's do this?

Thanks.

Rich
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kiwi dave
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kiwi dave

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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch   GRiSO 1100  Noisy clutch Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:52 am

It's a dry clutch, it's gonna make some noise.

Can you find another rider with one to compare?
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wardentm
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch   GRiSO 1100  Noisy clutch Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:00 pm

G'day Rich
Greetings from Tasmania ....
I too have a '07 1100, a fast red one .... 67000 ks on now, still going well
I too have a rattly clutch as you describe, been there all the time ...I just ignore it
Have a great day
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richpardo
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richpardo

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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch   GRiSO 1100  Noisy clutch Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:03 pm

kiwi dave wrote:
It's a dry clutch, it's gonna make some noise.

Can you find another rider with one to compare?

It's winter here in New York, so not easily. A friend told me that after going from an 1100 to a 1200 he was initially worried because the 1200 clutch was so quiet.

I had a brief ride in Virginia yesterday and the guy I was riding with kept questioning why it was so noisy. Comparing it to his California of the same year his was quiet.

I know it's a dry clutch but the other Guzzi's I've had which had dry clutches, like a LeMans 1000 and the V700 I still have, didn't have that rattle.

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richpardo
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richpardo

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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch   GRiSO 1100  Noisy clutch Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:07 pm

wardentm wrote:
G'day Rich
Greetings from Tasmania ....
I too have a '07 1100, a fast red one ....  67000 ks on now, still going well
I too have a rattly clutch as you describe, been there all the time ...I just ignore it
Have a great day

Hi, Greetings from New York and hoping your New Years is good in Tasmania!

Thanks for the response.

Wonder what's causing it....

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch   GRiSO 1100  Noisy clutch Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:12 pm

Perfecty normal. The 1100's were the last model to use the twin plate clutch assembly that was originally used in the V7 of 1967! Over the years they added two extra springs to increase the clamping force on the plates and the only other real change was that the flywheel and ring gear got lighter and lighter! The assembly used in the V11's and early CARC bikes is less than half the mass of the V7 one!

What you are hearing is the intermediate plate and pressure plate rattling in the flywheel and making it ring like a bell! When you pull the clutch in the slave cylinder piston acts on a thrust body and pushrod that go into a cup in the middle of the pressure plate. This moves the pressure plate forward leaving both the friction plates, (Which are splined to the gearbox input hub.) and the intermediate plate, (Which along with the pressure plate which is splined to the flywheel.) to 'Float' in the splines.

Now because the crank accelerates on the power strokes and decelerates on the compression strokes and the shared crankpin gives uneven firing pulses the 'Loose' plates chatter back and forth on their splines in the flywheel, this will be exacerbated if the throttle body balance is out as well. This chattering means that the splines act like the clapper of a bell and you get a high pitched 'Chinga-Chinga-Chinga' noise. Really. Nothing to worry about. Ride and enjoy.

Pete

PS. Just to respond to the last poster in fact all the twin platers do it but the heavier the flywheel and lower the compression the less they do it. Not only do the heavier flywheels resonate at a much lower frequency but the greater mass means that they accelerate and decelerate less with each power pulse so the 'knocking' of the clapper, (The splines on the plates.) in the bell, (The flywheel.) is less pronounced. On something like an Eldorado that has a flywheel like marine diesel it will be barely audiable unless the carbs are way out of whack. It gets louder as years go by and flywheels got lighter.
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richpardo
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch   GRiSO 1100  Noisy clutch Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:42 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
Perfecty normal. The 1100's were the last model to use the twin plate clutch assembly that was originally used in the V7 of 1967! Over the years they added two extra springs to increase the clamping force on the plates and the only other real change was that the flywheel and ring gear got lighter and lighter! The assembly used in the V11's and early CARC bikes is less than half the mass of the V7 one!

What you are hearing is the intermediate plate and pressure plate rattling in the flywheel and making it ring like a bell! When you pull the clutch in the slave cylinder piston acts on a thrust body and pushrod that go into a cup in the middle of the pressure plate. This moves the pressure plate forward leaving both the friction plates, (Which are splined to the gearbox input hub.) and the intermediate plate, (Which along with the pressure plate which is splined to the flywheel.) to 'Float' in the splines.

Now because the crank accelerates on the power strokes and decelerates on the compression strokes and the shared crankpin gives uneven firing pulses the 'Loose' plates chatter back and forth on their splines in the flywheel, this will be exacerbated if the throttle body balance is out as well. This chattering means that the splines act like the clapper of a bell and you get a high pitched 'Chinga-Chinga-Chinga' noise. Really. Nothing to worry about. Ride and enjoy.

Pete

PS. Just to respond to the last poster in fact all the twin platers do it but the heavier the flywheel and lower the compression the less they do it. Not only do the heavier flywheels resonate at a much lower frequency but the greater mass means that they accelerate and decelerate less with each power pulse so the 'knocking' of the clapper, (The splines on the plates.) in the bell, (The flywheel.) is less pronounced. On something like an Eldorado that has a flywheel like marine diesel it will be barely audiable unless the carbs are way out of whack. It gets louder as years go by and flywheels got lighter.

Thanks Pete!

Excellent explanation. I appreciate it!

Rich
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Bulldog9
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch   GRiSO 1100  Noisy clutch Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:30 pm

Pete Roper is exactly right.

I've come to enjoy the sound :-) I remember the first time I started my 2007 1100. It was at Moto international in Seattle. Dave Richardson was standing by my left elbow waiting for my shocked reaction when I pull in the clutch. He briefly explain what Pete just said and then told me if it ever stops making that noise there's something wrong.
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davem
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch   GRiSO 1100  Noisy clutch Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:39 am

if you want to feel better about your GRiSO clutch noise go listen to a Ducati dry clutch, they rattle like a bastard until you pull the clutch in, basically most of the time.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch   GRiSO 1100  Noisy clutch Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:50 am

Completely different issue. It's a totally different clutch mechanism.

While a wet clutch will, by its very nature, have rattles damped by the oil it runs in the fact a clutch is 'Dry' does not mean it will be intrinsically noisier than a 'Wet' clutch. An obvious confirmation is this is to listen to the clutch on an 8V. It's dry. It's a single plate automotive style clutch, and it's silent.

Pete
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davem
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch   GRiSO 1100  Noisy clutch Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:04 am

Still sounds awful compared to the GRiSO 1100 clutch though Pete.
I was at a fuel station a few month back and a guy on A Ducati race replica type thing pulled up at the next pump to me and the din from the open clutch area made me do a double take.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch   GRiSO 1100  Noisy clutch Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:37 am

With the Ducati's it's a 'Conventional' multiplate clutch with alternating friction and 'Plain' plates. The use of multiple plates means that the amount of torque each plate has to take is less for any given clamping force meaning diameter, area and clamping force can be lower. That is why the Ducati clutch is only a few inches across whereas the Guzzi units are the size of a dinner plate and the clamping forces are much higher! That means that hydraulic, or on cable operated ones, the mechanical ratios have to be different.

The multi plate system when used dry means that there are much higher numbers of plate 'Ears' thrashing back and forth with the acceleration and deceleration of the crank and also a reduction ratio between crank speed and clutch. No wonder they sound like cats screwing!

Pete
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Richard
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch   GRiSO 1100  Noisy clutch Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:19 am

I love that noise. One of the reasons I won’t get rid of this motorcycle alien
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Ekimyrf
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch   GRiSO 1100  Noisy clutch Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:26 am

I have an 07 GRiSO and an 04 Multistrada you want to hear the clack clack chinga chinga when I fire them both up
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Bulldog9
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch   GRiSO 1100  Noisy clutch Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:36 pm

I find it oddly humorous that the GRiSO clatters like its broken with the clutch pulled, and is silent when not, but my 8V Norge and Stornello are silent when pulled and clatters when not.... I much prefer the GRiSO.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch   GRiSO 1100  Noisy clutch Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:56 pm

On the 1200's it isn't the clutch rattling when the lever is released, it's the primary gears knocking to and fro that makes the racket. That's why it gets worse as the bike warms up. On the Storny I'd guess it's just the crappy idle causing things to knock about.
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Stubbie
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch   GRiSO 1100  Noisy clutch Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:56 pm

Ducati riders actually go to great lengths to make that noise louder on purpose. They have clutch covers with slots cut into them, clear plastic covers just to hear that clatter of those 16+ plates.
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davem
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch   GRiSO 1100  Noisy clutch Icon_minitime1Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:02 am

Pete Roper wrote:
On the 1200's it isn't the clutch rattling when the lever is released, it's the primary gears knocking to and fro that makes the racket. That's why it gets worse as the bike warms up. On the Storny I'd guess it's just the crappy idle causing things to knock about.

How come the 1100 primary gears are quiet and not the 1200?
I must say my 1100 ditch pump, other than the noise when the clutch is pulled in, is pretty much rattle free.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch   GRiSO 1100  Noisy clutch Icon_minitime1Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:56 am

It may be down to the fact that the 2V gearboxes have a face cam shock absorber on the input shaft. More mass. Other than that I got nothing but I haven't thought about it a lot, it doesn't cause an issue so who cares? Very Happy
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BB43215
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO 1100 Noisy clutch   GRiSO 1100  Noisy clutch Icon_minitime1Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:15 pm

After upgrading the exhaust I barely even notice the clutch noise. Still the GRiSO's clutch is definitely noisier than my V7.
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