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 Just changed my fork oil

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tvboy
Biondino
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tvboy

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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:05 pm

Thanks Beetle. That starts to make sense. I just saw another YT video from a guy changing his oil on a Kaw Ninja 1000. Fork tubes look like 43mms. He got 430 CCs out.
Much easier to add oil than subtract it.
I really think the MG specs are a typo. Probably should be closer to 420-450ccs.


Now I have a game plan.
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Lobo
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:32 am

Having read this thread drained my forks yesterday.... about 400mL came out / side. I then upended the forks overnight due tackling the steering bearings; and noted another 100+ mL in the measuring jugs this morn. I guess I’m on track to replace the full 520mL.
Not an oil expert, and stymied by the minimal specs on the various fork oils. The ENI data sheet unhelpful here... I’m guessing it’s a mineral oil? Any recommendations on what’s suitable within the ‘local’ automotive outlets... eg Penrite (full synthetic) or Castrol (mineral) fork oils? (I’ve ordered Guzzi ENI oil on eBay... but a week away)
Whilst I’ve got the forks off I thought I’d lube the steering head bearings. Like the swing arm, they did have grease in ‘em (it’s a 9yo bike).... but it was pretty minimal. That’s now been rectified...
The Guzzi Service manual doesn’t detail the steering head bearings removal, but simply support the headlamp with a bit of string / ‘skyhook’, release it via a couple of bolts from the bottom yoke, and thence you’re set to remove the ring nuts & drop the headstock. The balls are caged so no ‘gotchas’ there.[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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tvboy
Biondino
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:45 am

Lobo, How did your forks feel when you were riding around on 500ml+ of oil?
Were you getting the full 120mm travel ?
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Lobo
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:27 pm

Hi tvboy, I honestly don’t (can’t!) ride the GRiSO aggressively and have rarely used the brakes hard enough to get anywhere near full fork travel. That all said, I’ve never had pause for thought regarding the front end, and so plan to simply replace the volume I took out.
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tvboy
Biondino
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:30 pm

I can certainly appreciate that. I ask only because we have severe freeway joints up here and my forks draw attention to themselves in their harshness.
I placed a tiewrap around my slider and it is leaving about 30mm of travel unused when I hit the unavoidable horrible sections of freeway. I was just curious about other riders experience, The guy I bought my bike from thought the suspension was great as-is and didn't touch it. He had the Comp and Rebound settings in the hardest settings. I'll be doing my forks in the near future. Just as soon as I can build an A-frame to suspend it from. I'll pass along my findings.
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Lobo
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:15 pm

Interesting. I’ll do the same (tie wraps) outta interest in the coming weeks. My bike still laid up, basically now awaiting fork oil and a cable from ebay - before I start the least favourable task of re-mapping the ECU 🙁. (Have a general disdain of computers)
Amazing web page on it all Beetle btw... I ought’nt have any questions after all your work.... but sadly I will!
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:24 pm

If you are remapping make certain the tune is correct first. Set the valves, balance the TB's and recalibrate the TPS. If the valves or balance is out it can seriously detract from the benefits of remapping.
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Lobo
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:32 pm

Cheers Pete, Wildo.The past couple of months it’s been a bit reluctant to start.... I’m bloody hoping the remap will be the cure. (Valves were set, plugs checked ok, whatever component resistances / voltages I could check were checked, injectors out and cleaned... tho’ the TBs weren’t checked as balanced.) Fingers crossed... otherwise you / beetle in for a few emails 😂
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:40 pm

Do you have a suitable manometer? If not now is the time to get one. There really never has been a bike easier to tune than a W5AM Guzzi but you need to overcome your distain for computers and have the correct tools. Whatever you do, do not fiddle with the throttle stop screw or linkage rod ball joints on the TB's or you're buggered.
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tvboy
Biondino
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:46 pm

I  did a little Googling regarding 43mm Showas. A 2009 Ducati 848 (and some others) uses 43mm adjustable Showas. The Ducati manual for that bike calls for 440ml of fork oil. Our manual for (what I think is) the same tube is 520ml.
I'll update when I change my fork oil.
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Lobo
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:25 pm

Thanks tvboy... certainly my Guzzi forks were last filled in the factory, and have released 500+mL of oil / side.
Regarding your A frame build... over on my Honda SOHC Forum one guy uses a step ladders - lateral thinking or what?
FYI, the front end of my GRiSO supported as shown (ie above the cylinder heads), weighs in at 174Kg (other support is the rear wheel). I’d have much preferred to support it nearer the head stock and got this weight down, but couldn’t due wanting to get at the steering bearings....

Pete, I use the below vacuum gauges for balancing the carbs on my 4 cylinder Hondas - nice raw data as far as I’m concerned, with a bit of damping to boot. Appreciate my problem with computers (I ain’t actually that bad... but am definitely an Apple type)... but Mrs Lobo says no-can-do on this occasion.(I generally palm all the computer guff across to her 😂).
Will stay away from the adjustables you outline.... ta.[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:39 pm

My local suspension bloke sez about 50-70ml less than standard and use 5 Wt rather than 10 in the Showas. He also agrees that the stock shim stack is a pit of boiling arse.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:42 pm

Lobo wrote:

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Morgan? We're big fans of Morgan here. I have a super-spiffy digital unit which is very helpful for diagnosing other problems but cost me $800 or so and for most people, for most tasks, the Morgan is great!
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Lobo
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:15 am

...will take your advice on the fork oil volume.
Phew on the vac gauges...
Ta,
Simon
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:30 am

Pete Roper wrote:
My local suspension bloke sez about 50-70ml less than standard and use 5 Wt rather than 10 in the Showas. He also agrees that the stock shim stack is a pit of boiling arse.



10? Spec is 7.5. 520ml of 10W fork oil would give you concussion. I recommend 5W.


alien




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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:47 am

10w? 7.5w? All too fat. Be skinny, like me!
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:51 am


But you got them fancy oh-linz, uh-huh.


rabbit


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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:31 am

Nah, I got shitbox Sachs wif Matris internals. I did have a set of Ohlins but on-sold them because I already had gold forks that work well and it was easier for me to get a mega-tosspot Carbon Fibre front mudguard that bolted straight on because they make them for RSV-4's

I make no bones about the fact that the reason I changed from the really very good Showas is because I am an utter wanker! Oh, and I could. Razz cheers
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tvboy
Biondino
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:13 am

Pete Roper wrote:
My local suspension bloke sez about 50-70ml less than standard and use 5 Wt rather than 10 in the Showas. He also agrees that the stock shim stack is a pit of boiling arse.

That would agree with what Beetle and the Ducati manual says.

I think MG has a typo in their manual and the factory is over-filling the forks. Geez.

I was wondering about 5w but thought it would be too squishy. Not sure which would be best for me. I'm 200lbs all geared up.
I think I'll go with 7.5w Bel Ray and see how that goes. The reduced volume should make the biggest improvement in my view.
I like a comfortable ride but I don't want it to feel like a Honda Goldwing. I'm sold on the 450ml idea though. cheers
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tvboy
Biondino
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:43 am

Lobo, The ladder idea is excellent!. I have a large folding ladder that will work well. I didn't think about that. thanks.
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tvboy
Biondino
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:42 pm

Fork removal/Oil update: I used a very tall aluminum folding ladder as a scaffold (good idea Lobo) and a 2ton winch. A 1 inch wide nylon sling strap (3 ft long, 2ton rating) was looped under the bike frame right behind the steering tube and threaded up between the handlebar risers. This provided two lifting eyes for the winch to hook through. So far, so good. I got the left fork tube off and much to my surprise I got about 450ml out. Not the 520ml I was expecting and MG service manual recommends. The fluid looked good and it was bright red. (ATF?) Prior owner claims forks weren't touched by him or his dealer. Anyway, I was expecting to see too much oil which might explain the loss of full travel. I'll let them drain overnight and put Bel Ray 7w in tomorrow. More to come I'm sure.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:02 pm


Don't forget to pump them a few times to get the last bit out.



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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:30 pm

tvboy wrote:
The fluid looked good and it was bright red. (ATF?)

I'm guessing Redline Shockproof Heavy. There is also a lighter version in blue.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:41 pm

kiwi dave wrote:
tvboy wrote:
The fluid looked good and it was bright red. (ATF?)

I'm guessing Redline Shockproof Heavy.  There is also a lighter version in blue.

In the forks! scratch
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tvboy
Biondino
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PostSubject: Re: Just changed my fork oil   Just changed my fork oil - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:24 pm

I know.   this is weird. scratch  The fork caps had no tool marks on them so I don't think they've been off in 9 years. Prior owner would know and it wasn't noted on the service records. Update: I got another 60ml out of the left tube  cheers so that's at least 540ml drained out not counting my spillage of 5ml or so.  These things were over-filled even by Guzzi's standards!  They should feel pretty nice when I give them a paltry 440ml of 7wt.

If the oil is the Redline stuff then it looks great for 20k miles. No metal sparkles either.

Edit: I just looked at the Redline website. They have a 10wt red fork oil that is red.

I don't know what would get put in in Italy. Anyway, it's coming out.
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