GRiSO ghetto
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.


12425 - Established June, 2013 - all GRiSO, all the time...
 
HomeRegisterLog in
 

 Startus Inturuptus Question

Go down 
+7
JohnA
Grisonut
Kiwi_Roy
Oz1200Guzzi
lcjohnny
kiwi dave
GRD
11 posters
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3
AuthorMessage
Chris W
Grignapoco
Grignapoco
Chris W


Posts : 169
Join date : 2019-12-05
Age : 53

Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Startus Inturuptus Question   Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:11 am

if you don't want to spend that much money, you can get a tool that also works well made by Klein (other manufacturers such as T&B and Ideal make the same type of tool) that are of good quality and perform well
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Link to purchase on Amazon.


and when it comes to the crimp on terminals, the ones that have translucent plastic insulators are far superior to the opaque plastic insulators. the translucent type are more flexible and don't crack and break like the opaque ones tend to do.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
Kiwi_Roy
Sfregiato
Sfregiato
Kiwi_Roy


Posts : 491
Join date : 2017-11-09

Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Startus Inturuptus Question   Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:53 am

Chris W wrote:
as an electrician, I can say that compression terminals are an industry standard. If done correctly using the correct tool, you will get a durable, long lasting connection. personally, I  would use vaseline as a last resort and opt for a product like Noalox or equivalent as they are specifically designed for this application
Noalox seems to be specifically for aluminum joints, I have never seen a sparky using it. I used Vaseline for 50+ years on electrical contacts and batteries and it never let me down.
I agree, compression terminals are reliable if done right, protect the metal against corrosion and they will last a very long time.
I have a set of the Klein crimpers, they are worth the money, don't collapse sideways like the cheap ones.
Back to top Go down
Evans
Grignapoco
Grignapoco
Evans


Posts : 139
Join date : 2019-12-31

Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Startus Inturuptus Question   Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:16 am

Looking at crimp terminals I came across sets with shrink tube sleeves. Are they a good choice ?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
Oz1200Guzzi


Posts : 5613
Join date : 2014-03-13
Age : 66

Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Startus Inturuptus Question   Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:31 am

They will work Evans. There may be spares for years to come!
Back to top Go down
lcjohnny
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
lcjohnny


Posts : 594
Join date : 2016-01-25
Age : 66

Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Startus Inturuptus Question   Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:48 am

I took Kiwi-Roy's advice and did the Startus fix about 1,500 ml ago on my 2008, 29 thousand mile GRiSO 1200.
I ran a heavy (27.5amp, 3mm sq. 44/0.30) wire from the battery through a 30a fuse to the start relays and from them to the solenoid.
BUT
over the last 1000 miles it occasionally does a startus interruptus on the first press. Then fine.

I have checked the battery ("Good condition" Above 10.5v when starter running and the tester shows 275 Cca) and terminals.
I also serviced the starter and added a second earth wire to the chassis near the engine mounts. Then I checked all the terminals and wires again.

Before i go through it all again wire by wire & connection by connection to find my mistake.

Is there any single component of this age that might be below its best and cause this problem?
E.g. the relays or the battery despite it's test result.
Back to top Go down
Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
Oz1200Guzzi


Posts : 5613
Join date : 2014-03-13
Age : 66

Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Startus Inturuptus Question   Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:22 pm

Jon, when you serviced the starter, did you do anything with the solenoid - like lubricate it? It might also be "still" dirty. Solenoids should be dry, linkages not.
Back to top Go down
lcjohnny
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
lcjohnny


Posts : 594
Join date : 2016-01-25
Age : 66

Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Startus Inturuptus Question   Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:56 am

Pretty certain i kept the solenoid dry as you say.
But when i go over the whole b'stard again i will check that and the brush cage earth connection.

Well if none of the experts can think of anything i better take the bodywork off and chase every wire Sad

Oz1200Guzzi likes this post

Back to top Go down
Kiwi_Roy
Sfregiato
Sfregiato
Kiwi_Roy


Posts : 491
Join date : 2017-11-09

Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Startus Inturuptus Question   Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:15 pm

Startus Interuptus is caused by a low Voltage to the solenoid.
You could try reading the Voltage on the solenoid spade connection, it should be over 10.
The thing is once it does engage the Voltage will be high, it's only low if the solenoid doesn't have enough grunt to pull the solenoid in, hard to catch if it's just an intermittent problem.
The current is very high when the start relay closes so it only takes a fraction of an Ohm to drop a lot of Voltage.
e.g. 50 Amps across 0.1 Ohm is 5 Volts, a loose or dirty connection.

lcjohnny likes this post

Back to top Go down
lcjohnny
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
lcjohnny


Posts : 594
Join date : 2016-01-25
Age : 66

Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Startus Inturuptus Question   Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:26 pm

Thanks Kiwi Roy & Oz1200
When cranking voltage is generally 10.3v following a brief drop to 10.1v at hhe battery

Following your earth route test "jamb the positive lead into the battery -ve terminal while you make it crank, it should stay close to zero, indicating Negative indicates a bad ground." mine hits -0.3v - is that bad?.

0 ohms readable on the earth line

Tomorrow will take bits off and check the voltage drop on the command wire
and the solenoid and starter etc
Back to top Go down
kiwi dave
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
kiwi dave


Posts : 665
Join date : 2014-04-23
Age : 74

Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Startus Inturuptus Question   Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:57 pm

Before taking it all to bits, why don't you try supplementing your battery with jumpers from a known good battery (say the one in your car?).

My experience sez that batteries can appear to be good, and test good on cranking tests, but still can be flaky in action.
Back to top Go down
lcjohnny
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
lcjohnny


Posts : 594
Join date : 2016-01-25
Age : 66

Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Startus Inturuptus Question   Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Sat May 01, 2021 12:29 pm

Well i went over  the battery solenoid and starter side of the circuit today.
(1) Voltage drop while cranking: while getting 10.1v rising to 10.3v at the battery at the command wire I was seeing an inital flash reading of 5v to 7v rising very quickly to 10.3v  before it fades as the starter finishes.
(2) It did 'clunk and no start' once whilst i was testing - and while doing that it held 10.1v on the command wire until the starter phase finished
(3) Resistance of the earth path = 0 ohms
(4) Resistance of the switched command wire path = 3 ohms - that seems high but the 12v may have been upsetting my cheap meter

Starter motor - i must be going senile! - it seems I had lubricated the blethy solenoid - just like Oz1200 suggested. What a fool! I have cleaned that which will reduce stiction and air-spring effect. Checked the brushes again and cleaned the earth path from the brush carrier to the end plate (held by the bearing cap).

Put it back now getting an intial low voltage at the battery of 10.4v rising to 10.6v
At the command wire initial flick now to 8.3v rising v quickly to 10.1 then 10.6v before it fades as the starter finishes.

It has not done 'clunk no start' again so ......

beetle and Oz1200Guzzi like this post

Back to top Go down
Kiwi_Roy
Sfregiato
Sfregiato
Kiwi_Roy


Posts : 491
Join date : 2017-11-09

Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Startus Inturuptus Question   Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Sat May 01, 2021 5:09 pm

lcjohnny wrote:
Thanks Kiwi Roy & Oz1200
When cranking voltage is generally 10.3v following a brief drop to 10.1v at hhe battery

Following your earth route test "jamb the positive lead into the battery -ve terminal while you make it crank, it should stay close to zero, indicating Negative indicates a bad ground." mine hits -0.3v - is that bad?.

0 ohms readable on the earth line

Tomorrow will take bits off and check the voltage drop on the command wire
and the solenoid and starter etc

0.3 sounds reasonable, that's probably the resistance of the cable itself
Assuming it's drawing 100 Amps while cranking that would only need to be 0.003 Ohms, all you can do is try and improve on the connection and see if it makes any improvement in Voltage drop.
Note how passing a large current and measuring the Voltage drop lets you calculate very low resistances.
I posted on here how you can measure high currents quite accurately using the known resistance value of standard cables. Its easy to measure the starter current with a few inches of 14 or 16 AWG

moto and lcjohnny like this post

Back to top Go down
lcjohnny
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
lcjohnny


Posts : 594
Join date : 2016-01-25
Age : 66

Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Startus Inturuptus Question   Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Fri May 07, 2021 1:35 pm

UPDATE
20 starts + over this week and no clunk-no-start
So it may be fixed.

If it is - my money is on the lube i had put in the solenoid making a temporary seal so the air could not get out of its way and acted as an air spring
Back to top Go down
 
Startus Inturuptus Question
Back to top 
Page 3 of 3Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
GRiSO ghetto :: The Ghetto :: GRiSOLOGY-
Jump to: