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 Startus interruptus fix 2

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PostSubject: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:12 pm

I have already done the standard startus interruptus fix of big fused wires from the battery to the relays and from the relays to the solenoid.  
I also fitted a new battery, serviced the starter, new earth leads and clean and tight battery terminals.
But my GRiSO was still sluggish to turn over (i suspected the that one of the relays  may be high resistance).


I decided to help the relays out, by doing the other kind of Startus Interruptus repair
that is putting a new fused 40a relay down by the starter,
taking a 12v high amperage feed from the starter wire, triggered by the old solenoid feed.

It took about an hour all in, requires less interference with the standard wiring and is simpler to understand.

Notes before starting
a) use high quality double lever crimping tools double lever ratchet crimp tool
b) vaseline wire ends before crimping
c) take great care when undoing the 13mm live terminal on the solenoid - it is next to a chuffing great engine mount!!

It works - and the bike starts much more easily - plus you can see if the 30a fuse has popped without disturbing anything.

(1) A fused 4 pin relay - the wiring diagram is printed on the top of it to help you. The starter circuit feeds connection 85 & connection 86 goes to ground. The high amperage power supply goes to 30 and when the relay is activated that power is switched to 87'
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(2) How you remove terminals from the connector block, the tang on the connector is faced towards this T slot and then a tiny screwdriver or probe can lift the tang releasing the terminal
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(3) the tang on the terminal as mentioned
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(4) on my bike there is a 6mm hole in the top left engine mount that looked like i could hang a relay from it. NOTE there is a fat 12v and an earth running close behind so make up a wire cable retainer with a 6mm loop to bolt on with the same allen screw and hold the cables away from the mounting nut
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(5) 75mm centre to centre stainless strap to hang the relay (apologies....there are some brilliant fabricators on this forum & I AM NOT ONE!)
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(6) The relay and its connector with the tails:
(i) Black from terminal No.86 to a 7mm eye for earth,
(ii) Red from  terminal No.30 to a 7mm eye for the power wire on the solenoid &
(iii) Yellow from  terminal No.87 to an insulated female spade terminal going onto the solenoid -
(iv) the old trigger wire to the solenoid needs an uninsulated female spade crimped on to go into the socket for terminal 85 But the original trigger wire to the solenoid may not be long enough to drop down to the connector block - so prepare a 75mm extension male spade to female spade. If needed make sure the old trigger wire terminal grips it well and seal/support the join with adhesive shrink sleeve
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(7) The relay in place
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(eight) with the cover on you can just about see the fuse Smile
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Well it now starts as eagerly as a big bloc guzzi ever will  Surprised  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing

I will keep an eye on this fix - i think the wire runs are all safe & secure - I may want to lengthen the earth wire and run it behind the starter and i could take 40mm off the yellow wire to the solenoid but they are all in the dry and cool and well supported.

Hope this helps someone


Last edited by lcjohnny on Wed Mar 16, 2022 6:11 am; edited 7 times in total (Reason for editing : simplifying)

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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:28 pm

Thank You, thank you, thank you!!!!!! This looks like a really easy fix.

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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 11, 2022 4:20 pm

looks tidy

does the dreaded startus interruptus apply to 1200s as well?

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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 11, 2022 4:45 pm

Yes although i think i only experienced it 5-10 times before i did the first fix.

Hasn't happened to me since i put the 27a wires from the battery to the relays and down to the solenoid.

But that was about 1m of 27a wire - this fix uses only 250mm of 27a Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:05 pm

Can happen to all Guzzis, regardless of capacity. It's 'talian 'lectrics - part of the charm!

Some get lucky, others don't...


Last edited by Oz1200Guzzi on Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:40 pm


Never happened to mine.


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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:47 pm

would that be Dixie, you are whistling Mark?
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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:55 pm


Edit your post, Tony?


Very Happy Razz




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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:20 pm

Might have!
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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:39 am

Great effort and well-illustrated Johnny.

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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:49 pm

Awesome work dude this fix does seem to be the in thing on most auto electricians minds regarding guzzi startus interuptus.
Have had this information thrust at me by a decent bloke (Phil) doing a Stelvio rebuild who seems to know his shit and probably make this a kit. (Sold him my refurbed used suspension pivot block).
This setup or one like it was already on his stelvio when he bought it.
He sent me some facebook vids and they look pretty much like this.
Just need a link now to the relay in question (purchase) for this fick as shit f*cker.
Or see if can get Mr Ducati Loom Relay Man to make me a kit.
The idea is so simple even the most dim witted c*nt like me can suss it out Laughing
You the man Cool


Last edited by Buellbloke on Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 21, 2022 10:37 pm


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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:36 pm

Evilgarfield wrote:

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Nice try thanx Smile
Those aren't externally fused like lcjohnnys.
Also they are in cheng shin with a very long wait.
Amazon have similar shipped some time in April.
The actual one lcjohnny uses seems to be pretty much sold out everywhere.
Current-ly Laughing Seems to be the 2nd most popular relay on the planet at the moment, I wonder why Shocked
Ok so realise was being a lazy f*cker, here is about the closest I could find to an actual match.
Just around the corner in sunny devon.
Pin numbers are identical except its a 4 pin relay not a 5 pin and lcjohnny dont use no 5th pin.
It's externally fused 30amp, has the extra adaptor and removable mounting bracket.

eBay item number:
123048831066
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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 22, 2022 1:14 am

Don't know what you are talking about. The first 3 matches for my search on ebay come from the UK, are delivered in a few days and have the right specs. Adding an in line fuse is easy and convenient.
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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 22, 2022 3:24 am

For the tidiest mount with the least number of dangley bits i like the fused relay. I just searched "40a 12v fused relay" on Fleabay loads came up. The relay is rated 40a the fuse is 30a, if it blows i have spare.
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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:08 am

A lot of advertisers claim to be UK then when you order the item it gets delayed and they claim its because of Covid. Whereas if you scroll down the page and look at their business address you can see where the item is actually coming from and hence why the delay.
Amazon will actually inform you the date it should arrive and it will usually be a month after you ordered it because its coming from the land of the rising sun.

Lcjohnny am looking for a specific fused with adaptor and mounting bracket, identical or very close to what you used.
I want the same numbered posts and diagram on it.
In actual fact the brand you used is a top rated one sold buy businesses not using ebay, even though it was also sold on ebay its sold out.
Lots of these on ebay are super budget cheap shit hence why they are not sold out.
So am just supposed to suck it up and buy the cheap shit the proper businesses are avoiding.
Evilgarfield your more than welcome to go down that road.

If you were looking for hifi would you settle for Amstrad or go for Marantz.

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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:22 pm

lcjohnny wrote:

(4) on my bike there is a 6mm hole in the top left engine mount that looked like i could hang a relay from it. NOTE there is a fat 12v and an earth running close behind so make up a wire cable retainer with a 6mm loop to bolt on with the same allen screw and hold the cables away from the mounting nut
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Am surprised someone else more knowledgable never chirped in but you shouldnt have an unused hole up there Laughing
Thats the rear airbox mount, with the chrome nut removed there aint no budging it unless I imagine one loosens the whole box up.
I notice that one could just use the bracket on the relay and drill a similar hole at the bottom centre/right on the engine mount just above the fold/brace.
Your quite right about that live feed Shocked Laughing
Obviously my intention is to disconnect the battery live feed Shocked though whilst looking for a new location was a sparkly experience Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:04 pm

Buellbloke wrote:
you shouldnt have an unused hole up there Laughing
Thats the rear airbox mount, with the chrome nut removed there aint no budging it unless I imagine one loosens the whole box up.
I notice that one could just use the bracket on the relay and drill a similar hole at the bottom centre/right on the engine mount just above the fold/brace.

Interesting - must be two airbox types as mine has no sign of a boss or bulge to take that mounting.  If mine was like that i would use a 'P' shaped bracket which anchored on the outside under that dome nut (did they used to be called acorn nuts or is that my memory prob?) then dropped back behind the frame tube to hang the relay below. if it is steel and double (like i did) the chance of fatigue failure is negligable.

I didn't bother to disconnect the battery earth as i find undoing the nut carefully is less of a fiddle than re-setting the clock  Very Happy!

"the chance of fatigue failure is negligable" is said without any scentific back up... and is an open invitation to a put down by any metallurgist out there...


Last edited by lcjohnny on Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:29 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : stoopid assertions :))

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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 28, 2022 2:45 pm

Done mine though whether it fixes my issues is another matter.
My startus interuptus is the dreaded click but then it fires next click, sometimes it has failed twice.
Maybe I need the original fix so the solenoid feed wire runs direct like yours.

Startup is now instant from cold, less than one cycle and it fires.

I didnt have any eyes certainly not 30amp like your using, earth is 6mm, live is 8mm from what I found.
Fitting the solenoid feed was a f*cker, relay is right where you want to put your hand.
I soldered all my fittings so they couldnt pull out as with heat shrink manipulating the wires is more difficult.
Used "Ideal Noalox" on the earth upon refitting but only because had some laying around, its good for grounding alloy fittings, any metal really.
Definitely a fix I could acheive easily unlike the original, though where that is concerned all I actually need to fit is the fused 27amp output wire.
The fact I achieved this means any colour blind useless with electrics individual can manage it.

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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:40 pm

Am bumping this before it falls off the main page, about to build my second one and flog it for decent money.
If MPH can flog some cheap plugs and a bit of wire for £45 shipped from the USA.
Sold my MPH kit for £35 in under an hour, told those capable to copy it, was quite a queue for it Shocked
Am instead giving my old one to a friend who has similar issues and fitting the new one (wiring not relay)
He gets my current wiring loom above and new relay.


Last edited by Buellbloke on Fri May 06, 2022 12:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Tue May 03, 2022 9:02 am

I may have to give this a try.  My 1100 GRiSO has had the whole wiring path from the battery to the solenoid redone using 14 gauge solid house wire (ain't no resistance there anymore!)  Connections soldered and heat-shrinked.  The old beast still does the click-bang bit instead of starting.  I've left a (covered) bare wire end under the seat that connects to the solenoid. Touch that to the battery and she starts like a new scooter.  Seems to me that the ECU is sensing the voltage drop and shutting every thing down; so, that makes me wonder if triggering the new relay from the old solenoid relay will work in my case.  Will just have to give it a try because the current state of affairs is driving me crazy.

Thanks lcjohnny for posting this execellent write-up!

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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Thu May 05, 2022 9:08 pm

A good Fix cheers

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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Fri May 06, 2022 12:56 am

Kiwi_Roy wrote:
A good Fix cheers

Thank you Roy
All based on your research
Jon

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PostSubject: Re: Startus interruptus fix 2   Startus interruptus fix 2 Icon_minitime1Fri May 06, 2022 6:15 am

The answer to my question below seems to be implied in another thread, at end of a long reply by Kiwi Roy, which is well worth reading:

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Here's the question Kiwi Roy already answered in the other thread, in the response I just gave a direct link to:

"Is lcjohnny's fix sufficient by itself to cure the startus interruptus problem that you so carefully analyzed? Would it be sufficient for each of the GRiSO varients, at least?"

(The answer I infer is "Yes.")

Many thanks to both of you!

Moto
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