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 Fuel pump outlet

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kiwi dave
GuzziSteve
beetle
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Evans
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Evans
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PostSubject: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:16 pm

If possible I'm looking to replace the plastic outlet from the fuel pump with a metal one,
and intending to replace the plastic quick connector with a self sealing metal version.

The plastic connection from the fuel pump rotates but doesn't unscrew.
Does anyone know how it is fitted and whether it can be replaced by a metal threaded version ?

Thanks Evans
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MalG
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:04 pm

The guys at Motociclo cut up a fuel pump plate to find out why the red elbow wouldn't come out. They found the elbow has a one way only conical tang (in addition to the 2 o-rings) designed to go in and not come out. Surmised that the only way to get it out (once broken off - the usual scenario) is to carefully drill it out with an appropriate size drill, and carefully & meticulously remove what is left of the tang & the outer sides. I have seen the proper replacement elbows before, but rarely & the only ones seen in current searches don't have the same tang on the end that goes inside the base plate. Try searching moto guzzi fuel connectors to get an idea of what's currently available (& usually out of stock).
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MalG
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:17 pm

FWIW, with practice, the QD (?) connector gets a lot easier to remove. A little silicone spray seems to help. I've done is so often now, I don't have a problem. And I'm careful not to stress the red elbow unduly. Breaking that elbow is not unknown and the guzzi forums (& probably the Aprilia & Ducati ones as well) have various solutions. Leaving the elbow & the QD in place & adding in a better (& metal) in line connector further down the line seems a common preventative measure.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:21 pm

The plastic connectors are available as an Aprilia part and the plastic female ends are available as parts for a Cali. I've never broken one but they can be a pain to separate. If I was going to go to the bother I'd probably just make up a line with an easier type connector about 40mm away from the current spigot and just leave the original connector in place and never touch it.

Oh, we have both fittings in stock.
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little750
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:27 pm

This is a Ford Fuel Rail Hose Connector Elbow 1330328 buy it here [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It may or may not fit.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:25 pm


As Mal says...


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You can get metal ones as well. This one is from Zip-Ty Racing in the US.


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Evans
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:52 pm

That metal version is what I'd prefer. Getting the original out though looks difficult.
If I can't replace the original without risking damage I will go the fixed to a metal quick coupling route
Thanks Evans
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GuzziSteve
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:46 pm

I have drilled out 2 of them that broke off, don't go too big. They usually come apart and out. Saw off elbow & drill.
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Evans
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:10 pm

Do you have a part # for the Zip-Ty metal fitting ?
They don't specify Moto Guzzi on their site so I'm not sure what to search for.
Thanks Evans
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:22 pm


It's a Husqvarna part.

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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:00 pm

And remember to disconnect the pump with the engine running to reduce the pressure in the fuel hose. The engine will, of course, splutter to its demise.

Simple but effective.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:21 pm


..or simply disconnect the pump then hit the starter...


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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:41 pm

beetle wrote:

..or simply disconnect the pump then hit the starter...



Dunno why, but I find it easier to remove when the motor has been running. Even then, sometimes it ain't fun.
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Evans
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:46 pm

This is the dry, quick connect coupling that I am going to check out.
The optimum set up that I'd prefer, if it's feasible is the metal outlet from the pump
this or similar quick disconnect and stainless sheathed lines to the splitter to the injectors.
From the comments it seems likely that the original coupling is hard to remove if the system is under pressure

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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:35 am

My one just broke Sad
have drilled out the old one (saw the angle off flush with the tank. Then 10mm drill down the centre to open it then very carefully with a 12mm drill that catches the metal that forms the tangs and pulls it inwards. Then you can bend the pastic inwards and pull it out with snipe nose pliers).

Have ordered a 'Ford Fuel rail hose connector elbow' part no 1072003 (98MF-9L276-BA) which is the part number the old ebay link pointed to.  Will update for newer readers when it arrives
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:35 am

Looking forward to see the result ....did you go for one of the white ones @ £15.48 on ebay ??

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My experience with Ford has gone downhill today after them quoting me 14 days to get a 2013 Fiesta Handbrake cable (from Germany)....not helped by fact my daughters car just broke it's cable & is stuck at our house....ebay pattern part will arrive on Monday !
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:58 pm

Yes that's the one!

Ideally i want the bike back on the road before next weekend or i would have gone for the solid alloy part from USA.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:01 pm

You can buy the elbow as a Piaggio part as well. They're sold separately as an Aprilia Pegaso part. I've always got one in stock but I've never personally broken one. Of course having said that I've now jinxed meself! Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:43 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
You can buy the elbow as a Piaggio part as well. They're sold separately as an Aprilia Pegaso part.

found them part AP8104192, "COUPLING, Aprilia, Derbi, Moto Guzzi, Vespa, Gilera, Piaggio" for the 2004 Pegaso 650 IE - but £35 so i am going to gamble with the Ford part
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:52 pm

My guess is the Ford part is identical. Most of this shit in Europe comes from the same suppliers. I seem to remember trying to find the Ford part over here but it wasn't used on any models we got in Oz. It was years ago though so it may just be my sclerotic brain playing tricks on me.... Laughing

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guzziownr
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:50 am

Pete Roper wrote:
If I was going to go to the bother I'd probably just make up a line with an easier type connector about 40mm away from the current spigot and just leave the original connector in place and never touch it.

That's exactly what I did. This is a Motion Pro fitting in plastic, other brands come in metal. I cut the line with a razor blade and dipped it in hot water to soften it to fit it on the barb.

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evansnows
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:27 pm

Just dug up photos of the parts I used to modify my system.
When I got the bike and first removed the tank the plastic fuel line was kinked already.
I really didn't like that or the plastic elbow which will inevitably harden and embrittle with age.
Also having to lift the tank to get at the plastic elbow to detach it wasn't a great idea.
I had a metal elbow made up and drilled and tapped the metal lip on both sides of the plate holding the fuel pump to hold the elbow in place using 3mm grub screws loctited in place to allowing it to rotate.
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I think the same would be necessary if using the metal Husqvarna part.

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I think it is a far superior choice than the plastic version

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I replaced the plastic fuel lines with braided lines throughout and installed non drip quick detatch
couplers that I can access before removing the tank. Can't find pictures of the whole system but these are the couplers.

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It gives me peace of mind to know I have a more robust system. The idea of the plastic elbow failing
and the fuel pumping onto the motor gave me the heeby geebies.

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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:50 am

Hi Evans
I was looking for your original post so thanks for re-posting Smile

I am going to take a punt on a new Aprilia Ford Ka plastic outlet.

But i intend to lengthen the fuel pipe and put in a quick disconnect to reduce future pain.
I was going to try a 360 degree turn under the tank to give me 300mm more slack.

However there is very little space there and a risk of pressing on the throttle plate.

So I do like the way that you have run yours over the left inlet rubber.
Btw what braided pipe did you use?

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evansnows
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:33 am

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Proflow’s 100 Series stainless braided rubber hose is the industry’s go-to hose. Constructed from a high-shining 308 stainless steel braided outer cover with a chlorinated polyethylene (CPE) synthetic inner liner, it can handle hydrocarbon based fuels such as E85 and methanol. It is also great to be used with oils, lubricants, coolant and vacuum applications due to its great thermal and pressure resistance ratings. Note: For use with 100 & 500 Series fittings. This hose in not designed for use on high pressure power steering, brake or high pressure hydraulic applications. Dimensions are approximate and are subject to changes in tolerance during manufacturing.

You'll need the quick coupling and tails to suit the hose and a T fitting to feed the two injectors after the coupling (I used brass not plastic)

These hose ends are good for exposed ones, check you get the right size for the braided hose
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They also supplied the quick connect coupling and hose barbs

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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pump outlet   Fuel pump outlet Icon_minitime1Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:20 pm

Interesting....& defo getting me thinking I need to upgrade/lengthen. I can't see Proflow in UK...but Demon Tweeks have similar branded Automotive Plumbing Solutions

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& Goodrifge but prices are steep for them

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