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 The definitive guide to Rollerisation

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Dean68uk
Onewhocansee
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Pete Roper
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Onewhocansee
Carlotto
Carlotto
Onewhocansee


Posts : 36
Join date : 2022-04-01
Age : 50

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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 5 Icon_minitime1Sun Apr 09, 2023 9:11 am

There is no remedy except fitting the correct parts I'm concluding after more reading. Just to add the Left hand side part which is correct is marked on the box 1A002064.

The incorrect RH part is marked 1A002067.

I didnt hear any cracking when I torqued the head down, maybe it waited till I'd fukd off, this is the A8 designated engine. I looked @ the chamfering on the LH weir casing , but not the RH one. I was to busy beavering away.

When I pulled them out the box initially it was just to check I had a LH & RH side.

Fuggin mumble grumble bollox!! 😡
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Pete Roper
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
Pete Roper


Posts : 10420
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 67

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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 5 Icon_minitime1Sun Apr 09, 2023 2:03 pm

How do they manage to do that? I've had it as well. And two camboxes the same side in a kit!

I'm convinced Piaggio run their spare parts centre as some sort of sheltered workshop for mental defectives!

No, you'll have to return the kit. Probably all of it which means taking the other cambox off as well.
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Onewhocansee
Carlotto
Carlotto
Onewhocansee


Posts : 36
Join date : 2022-04-01
Age : 50

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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 5 Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 15, 2023 3:29 am

You'll not be surprised to learn your right. On a plus side I stripped it back down pretty fkn sharply. Nearly dropped an m5 in to the engine when removing the cam pulley(eek!) Gutsibits gave me £100 back which was nice of them.
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Dean68uk
Carlotto
Carlotto
avatar


Posts : 28
Join date : 2022-02-11

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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 5 Icon_minitime1Wed Apr 26, 2023 7:41 am

Onewhocansee wrote:
OK RH side done & when I went to put the long tube in guess what? It doesn't fukin fit!! Those useless cnuts supplied the wrong one & this useless cnut never noticed before fitting it. It was all going to well. Is there a remedy?

Had the same issue but my LH side was the later tyoe and my long tube didn't fit.
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Rolf Halvorsen
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
Rolf Halvorsen


Posts : 21
Join date : 2021-11-19

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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 5 Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 29, 2023 8:25 am

Hello from up north

As many others, I received 2 different camshaft kit parts. One LEFT type-A and one RIGHT type-B.
I had ordered a B-kit since I needed a C-kit for my 2010 GRiSO.
B-kit + parts are cheaper than a C-kit.

The solution by me was to maschine the type-A part to be a type B-part.

This can be done by reducing the height around the spark plug hole with XXmm, and increase the diameter to be a little bigger than the steel tube.

A good friend of mine has access to a mill - so this could be preformed without trouble.

I have no access to a type B head right now, so we need Pete to tell us how much the height should be reduced.

I hope this can be of help for someone unlucky like me.

Rolf

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Pete Roper
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
Pete Roper


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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 5 Icon_minitime1Sun Apr 30, 2023 10:38 am

Excuse my not replying sooner Rolf, I'm actually sick as a dog at the moment so consider what I say carefully in light of the fact I may not be thinking straight.

Basically though the amount you need to take off could be anything from 'Nothing' to 'Some'. To be honest it's not something that demands accuracy as the actual sealing is done by the inserted steel tube and it's two o-rings rather than the cambox casting and a gasket as is done with the later system.

When the part is cast it's obviously cast deep enough so it can be machined to the tighter tolerance required for the neoprene gasket used on the 'Floating' cover system. When being fitted to an earlier bike it just needs machining down so that it won't foul on the rocker cover but no real finesse is needed so I assume they just stick a depth into the CAD programmer deeper than for when they're doing 'Floating' fitment assemblies. It may be it doesn't need shortening at all, if it does just get a rough height from the old cambox assembly you've taken off.

Of more concern would be to ensure that the bottom of the weir the cams run in is machined down a bit as shown in the pictures in the guide as if it isn't, in some cases, it will press on the head causing the weir to crack!
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Rolf Halvorsen
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
Rolf Halvorsen


Posts : 21
Join date : 2021-11-19

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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 5 Icon_minitime1Sun Apr 30, 2023 11:13 am

Yes Pete - you are not that ill, I pressume.

I had forgotten that I also milled away about 1mm of the thickness at the bottom, where the camshaft is hold in position.

This is described well in Petes earlier documents - with pictures.


I milled away about 10mm height to be equal with the type B cambox. When you compare cambox type A and B - this can be seen quite good.

Normally we start the driving season 1. May. But this year is different. Snow is comming right now, so we will have to wait.

In Australia I think the winter season is on your doorstep.

Rolf
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
Oz1200Guzzi


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Age : 69

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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 5 Icon_minitime1Sun Apr 30, 2023 10:11 pm

While we have winter on our doorstep Rolf, it does not prevent us from riding.
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Pete Roper
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
Pete Roper


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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 5 Icon_minitime1Sun Apr 30, 2023 10:17 pm

We've just had a weekend of driving rain Rolf and when that happens it takes all the last of the summer/autumn warmth out of the soil and we know that it's going to be cold, although not necessarily miserable, until September.

We very rarely get snow here, a couple of light dustings every year at most and it never lies for more than a few hours and our winters are usually dry and sunny most of the time. It does get cold though. Because we're at the top of the Great Dividing Range as soon as the sun goes down the temperature plummets and at dawn it regularly gets down to -6*C or lower, (Although having said that such frosts are a lot rarer than even ten years ago!). Good thing is as soon as the sun comes up the temperature rises quickly. By 10.00AM it will be above freezing and by mid afternoon it can be in the mid teens! It's a dry cold too so no ice and therefore no salt on the roads. One of the reasons I'm sure that we have a lot less seized brakes, electrical problems and rusty bikes than those in countries where it gets cold and wet in winter and people keep riding.
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Markb455
Squinternotto
Squinternotto
Markb455


Posts : 1
Join date : 2023-05-07
Age : 51

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PostSubject: C Kit    The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 5 Icon_minitime1Sun May 07, 2023 11:36 am

Hi Peter great article I have a 2008 GRiSO 1200 8 v with the mentioned problem I see that you can source the C kit in Europe as from what I’ve read that’s what I need I’m based in Ireland can you still source those kits ?
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Pete Roper
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
Pete Roper


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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 5 Icon_minitime1Sun May 07, 2023 12:19 pm

Replying to you via PM.
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Onewhocansee
Carlotto
Carlotto
Onewhocansee


Posts : 36
Join date : 2022-04-01
Age : 50

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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 5 Icon_minitime1Sun May 07, 2023 2:54 pm

Ok so while i'm waiting for my parts & slowly grinding down my teeth while I see lots of bikers enjoying the fine weather, good luck to them but it's killing me. 😥

Just wondering the need for the new map after fitting the roller kit, are the 1400 cams slightly different profile? Couldnt find a reason in all the stuff I've browsed.

Carried out the sump gasket fix in the meantime, original was fine but at least now I know, already had the dodgy pressure sender last year.
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Pete Roper
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
Pete Roper


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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 5 Icon_minitime1Wed May 10, 2023 3:20 pm

Onewhocansee wrote:
Ok so while i'm waiting for my parts & slowly grinding down my teeth while I see lots of bikers enjoying the fine weather, good luck to them but it's killing me. 😥

Just wondering the need for the new map after fitting the roller kit, are the 1400 cams slightly different profile? Couldnt find a reason in all the stuff I've browsed.

Carried out the sump gasket fix in the meantime, original was fine but at least now I know, already had the dodgy pressure sender last year.

Roller cams work entirely differently to flat tappet cams and consequently due to the changes in lift rate and possibly duration they cause differences in how the heads flow gas. It isn't huge, in fact if you stick with factory mapping the same map is used as was used in the last of the flat tappet bikes and presumably the differences are so small that while in closed loop the ecu trims around them. Really though that is just an indicator of how vague and lacklustre the factory maps are.

Thing is there were several different flat tappet cam iterations used on the various 8V engines. These can be identified by different part numbers but mainly that related to how end float was controlled on the shafts. Some of them did have slightly different profiles though, (I graphed them back in the day.) but with the advent of the roller top end there is only one camshaft profile. All roller bikes, 1200 or 1400, use the same cams.

Depending on what map you currently have your bike may behave OK or it may be a spluttering, popping horror. The bottom line though is you can tune it and load up a Beetlemap and turn it into a turbine like tower of torquey excellence! Depending of course on all aspects of the machines health and tune being good.
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Onewhocansee
Carlotto
Carlotto
Onewhocansee


Posts : 36
Join date : 2022-04-01
Age : 50

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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 5 Icon_minitime1Thu May 11, 2023 3:15 pm

Thanks Pete.

I'm deffo going to remap anyway. T.B balance & valve clearance adjust prior improved it massivley (Mainly T.B balance though) but it's still a pain in the arse round town. That heavy clutch being feathered aint much fun. Fired up my Beta Rev3 250 the other day after a long lay off & thought the cable had snapped at first.

I like the popping & gargling, like it's choking on it's own vomit, makes me smile. I really like the engine with it's relative low tech & surprisingly eager haul ass ability.

But most of all I just love the Stelvio looks, it's special I.M.O 😍
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kidsmoke
Grignapoco
Grignapoco
kidsmoke


Posts : 149
Join date : 2017-09-25

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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 5 Icon_minitime1Wed Aug 23, 2023 8:05 am

FYI to the OP

Just a note that I'm unable to view any of Pete's images on this thread, despite being logged in and being able to see other's images.

Perhaps something with the image host??
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Pete Roper
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
Pete Roper


Posts : 10420
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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 5 Icon_minitime1Wed Aug 23, 2023 2:48 pm

Still working for me?
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beetle
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
beetle


Posts : 10047
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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 5 Icon_minitime1Wed Aug 23, 2023 3:42 pm

Me too.




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[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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In GRiSO we trust!
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Pete Roper
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
Pete Roper


Posts : 10420
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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 5 Icon_minitime1Wed Aug 23, 2023 4:51 pm

I also posted it up in the 'Newer Models' section of V11Lemans.com so you could try accessing it there as well and see if that makes a difference. Otherwise I'd guess it's something to do with your browser settings.

kidsmoke likes this post

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kindoy2
Tanabuso
Tanabuso
kindoy2


Posts : 97
Join date : 2021-09-23
Age : 72

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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 5 Icon_minitime1Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:06 pm

works 4 me. Shocked cheers
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kidsmoke
Grignapoco
Grignapoco
kidsmoke


Posts : 149
Join date : 2017-09-25

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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 5 Icon_minitime1Wed Aug 23, 2023 8:29 pm

Never mind! Workplace wifi restrictions. Got on at home and everything is there.

Carry on….
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The definitive guide to Rollerisation
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