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 The definitive guide to Rollerisation

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Pete Roper
GRiSO Capo
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Pete Roper


Posts : 9827
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 66

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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:45 am

I'm pretty sure I know why the DLC tappets shit themselves. It has nothing to do with oil or moisture directly, although moisture is part of it. I'm not willing to discuss it on the internet though.
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evansnows
Grignapoco
Grignapoco
evansnows


Posts : 165
Join date : 2019-06-05

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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:24 pm

Personally I find the Grisos a unique, an iconic blend of Italian style and performance.

If I had to scrap my bike due to a minor design fault it would be a personal blow and the unnecessary loss of another true classic.

The roller conversion is a complex bit of kit. I don't think there will be any generics once the genuine parts are gone.

I'll be interested to know whether Pete believes there is an alternative. If low oil temperature and condensation are part of the problem then with tappets of a different material, an oil temperature thermostat and possibly adapting the tappet covers so that they are not such a sensitive heat sink. Or some other way of mitigating the temperature fluctuations between day and night is not insurmountable.

Metallurgy is an incredibly complex field I suspect that Aprilia didn't try hard enough.

Having been involved in building state of the art race boats in a Latin country (Spian) I know that despite eye watering budgets, that given the wrong designers / technicians absurd mistakes are made.

The first Artemis Americas Cup boat self destructed and killed a crew member. I was involved in the
second boat build. Keystone cops have nothing on what went on ( budget 150 million euros)

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BetaSteve
Carlotto
Carlotto
BetaSteve


Posts : 37
Join date : 2022-03-31

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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Mon Oct 24, 2022 6:21 pm

I find it highly doubtful enough early 8V bikes were sold to warrant someone creating their own roller kit to market, even if none of them had yet been rollerized. It’s my recent experience any factory support is done, at least stateside. My hat is off to Pete - even with ridiculous lack of cooperation from the AU post, eventually the C kit he sourced for me arrived to my tiny corner of the PNW USA. Wish I knew you when you were in the greater Seattle area!
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markymarq
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
markymarq


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Join date : 2022-09-22

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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:52 am

This almost seems too good to be true?!? Shocked  I'll report back as soon as I have it in my hands! Very Happy

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Bill Hagan
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Bill Hagan


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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:13 am

markymarq wrote:
This almost seems too good to be true?!? Shocked  I'll report back as soon as I have it in my hands! Very Happy

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I'd not wait for the mails, but drive up and grab that ASAP! cheers

Bill

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Doc.
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
Doc.


Posts : 107
Join date : 2017-04-22
Age : 61

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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:41 am

evansnows wrote:
. . . If low oil temperature and condensation are part of the problem then with tappets of a different material, an oil temperature thermostat and possibly adapting the tappet covers so that they are not such a sensitive heat sink. Or some other way of mitigating the temperature fluctuations between day and night is not insurmountable . . .

It's well known and documented that the 1200 8V Engines are over-cooled.
I got my 09 Stelvio in 2015, with 19,000miles on it.
I didn't know about the Tappet issue until a few weeks later.

There were several theories floating around (and still are), and it was known back then that Bikes in hotter, drier Climates tended to last longer than those in cooler, damper Climates.

Being in the UK, I fitted an Oil Temp Gauge first, and kept the Cooler covered enough to keep the Temps up to 100+ °C.
Without that, the Oil would rarely get above 75°C or so, in Winter (12°C or less ambient temps), and there would always be 'Mayo' in the Valve Covers.

I then made a Thermostat for the Cooling Oil Circuit, others have fitted off-the-shelf Items.

I did the Roller Conversion at just over 28,000 miles, the Tappet Faces were just starting to show signs of the DLC failing.
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markymarq
Montanarolo
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markymarq


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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:59 pm

It has arrived. cheers

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Pete Roper
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Pete Roper


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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:05 pm

Excellent. Now open the box and make sure you don't have two right or left hand camboxes, or one old and one new type cambox! Yeah. That happens..... Rolling Eyes

Once you get to doing the job PLEASE if you have any problems or questions ask BEFORE you break something! We can walk you through it.

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scottmastrocinque
Don Abbondio
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scottmastrocinque


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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Tue Dec 13, 2022 2:43 am

Pete Roper wrote:
18 hours! Where do these dipshits get their times from? Perhaps they're blind and have to do everything by feel? It takes Michael about 6.5 hours to do a 'C' kit on a GRiSO and that includes dropping the sump and spacer to do the spacer gasket and a full tune-up and remap afterwards and he's in a wheelchair! 18 hours! Fuck me lonesome!

Do it yourself. Just take your time and if you have problems? Stop and ask BEFORE you screw something up but it's really not 'Difficult' type difficult.

Biggest problem at the moment will be finding a kit. They are in very short supply and with many factories in Europe furloughing their workers and stopping production due to the energy embargo on Russia and the approaching winter that is unlikely to change any time soon.


Most mechanics know precisely that the quote that they gave of 18 hours is for a reason.

Unfortunately for the gentleman, it is the case of, “we really don’t want to do this job so we will bid the sun, moon and stars out of it and if you bite, we’ll, then at least it will be worth our while to mess with it”.

That’s why they bid what they did.

It has nothing to do with being “dipshits”.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:11 am

It has everything to do with being dipshits.

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scottmastrocinque
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Tue Dec 13, 2022 4:32 am

What a lovely way to view the world…
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:30 pm

Nope.

If you don't want to take the job? Be honest enough to say so and explain why to the customer. Don't make up some cock and bull story showing your indifference or glaring ignorance and leaving the customer confused and desperate.

If you do that? You're a dipshit!

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scottmastrocinque
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:01 pm

We will agree to disagree.
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fanattic
Squinternotto
Squinternotto
fanattic


Posts : 1
Join date : 2016-09-09

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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:55 pm

Roller kit 'A' for my 2012 Tenni arrived today. Yay!
I ordered it through AF1, and it took about 9 weeks, but no problems.
Thanks Pete for your help and your warning about ordering soon, otherwise I might not have gotten off my ass. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:33 pm

Good-o! I'll be interested to hear how your flatties look and the mileage you've done. There is anecdotal evidence that the final iteration of the flat tappets last longer than previous versions. I've seen no evidence of this but since there are fewer A and D kit engines about my own experience is less comprehensive than with the earlier B and C kit engines.

I currently have one D kit Sport and an A kit GRiSO in. I'm expecting damage on the Sport but the GRiSO has only done 1,600 km so if it is showing visible damage I'd be surprised.

Make no mistake though. They ALL fail. Some just take longer than others.

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:17 am

On this issue.

2011 1200 Sport. 44,000km. Last iteration of the flat tappets.

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Tappets at time of swap.

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Full service history on distance but not time so no chance of a free kit. Rolling Eyes

Kind of puts to bed the "Oh, the last iteration were all good." argument. Or not, if you're an idiot.

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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:23 am


^^^^^^^

A pretty machine ... on the outside. Wink

Bill

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:12 am

That was the least of it Bill. On the Sport you need to lower the engine to get the heads off so it's a bit of a frontbottom. Then there was the fact the swingarm bearings had been monstered and the shock linkage double conrod was a rusty nightmare and the beautiful swan turned into, well, whatever it was that beautiful swans turn into when they're no longer beautiful.

Anyway. It'll be very nice when we've finished with it.

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Grisonut
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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 11, 2023 12:46 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
Nope.

If you don't want to take the job? Be honest enough to say so and explain why to the customer. Don't make up some cock and bull story showing your indifference or glaring ignorance and leaving the customer confused and desperate.

If you do that? You're a dipshit!

Thank you Pete for being the anti BS guardian of these boards so it doesn't turn like some fucktardery we see on other sites. Gee!
This is the only place we have to truly help each other and resolve issues.
Proof? I haven't logged in lately but came in to check out if there was a solution for the dash issue I have with my 07 and sure enough, someone found a fix for it. Thumbs Up
Me happy...

Cheers
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Onewhocansee
Montanarolo
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Onewhocansee


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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:02 am

Just done the left bank of my Stelvio. Undid the 2 M6 bolts first & then the 4 head bolts, sound of the gaskets relaxing was unnerving & I noticed the base gasket was weeping oil when rebuilding. Is this likely to cause me an issue?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 08, 2023 11:21 am

Nope
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Onewhocansee
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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 08, 2023 11:40 am

2011 (Jan) Stelvio 11000 miles , B kit. Obviously it was on it's way, rusty crudy bolt was from the new rocker retaining bridge.  Italians or Chitalians  Question

Only done the left side today, hardest part was finding torque settings saved to my computer. First manual download didnt have any. Root!

Will get other side done tomorow & then remap & change out sump spacer gasket. Is the correct way to relieve tensioner on the RH side to unscrew the cap that holds the tensioner inplace?

Like a dildo I've now got 2 earthing tangs old & new  Rolling Eyes


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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:13 pm

Onewhocansee wrote:


Is the correct way to relieve tensioner on the RH side to unscrew the cap that holds the tensioner inplace?


Yup.
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Onewhocansee
Montanarolo
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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Sun Apr 09, 2023 4:24 am

OK RH side done & when I went to put the long tube in guess what? It doesn't fukin fit!! Those useless cnuts supplied the wrong one & this useless cnut never noticed before fitting it. It was all going to well. Is there a remedy?
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Onewhocansee
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PostSubject: Re: The definitive guide to Rollerisation   The definitive guide to Rollerisation - Page 4 Icon_minitime1Sun Apr 09, 2023 4:59 am

RH side.

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