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 Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama

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Red Leader
JohnA
motor-timothy
Papa Lazarou
Pete Roper
paulbrice
lcjohnny
Matias
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Matias
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Matias

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PostSubject: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:03 pm

Hi all,

The summer is ending, and soon will start the Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama again...
Has someone already found a practical solution for this?
I saw some posts in several forums in the past, but some solutions were too complicated. Someone was saying to just drill some holes on the back of the cluster for ventilation, but I'm affraid dust and buggs can get in...

Thanks for your inputs
Luis
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:22 pm

Hi Matias - there is already a big opening in the bottom of the cluster where the mounting bracket comes in.
So more venting will not help. However i think that the answer may be to provide more warmth inside the instrument binnacle, i would consider fitting a 3w incandescent bulb inside to warm and circulate air.
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Matias
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:55 pm

Hi Johnny,

I'm affraid it is a bit more complicated than that...
Inside that panel unit you have a sealed flat cluster with the electronics inside. It has just a small openning on the back protected by a membrane that should prevent the moisture to go in, but unfortunately the membrane is not completely effective. The openning is needed because you have a atmospheric pressure sensor inside, so you need outside/inside communication.
When those high humidity days come some moisture allways finds its way in, and once inside it's more difficult to get out. In cold sunny days the sun light through the cluster "glass" raises the temperature inside, but the low temperatures outside cool the cluster walls, including the "glass", creating big "clouds" of condensation....very anoying....sometimes it's even diffcult to read the information. And this is not the only effect....the condensation over the circuit board creates electronic issues too....
Everyone that has a GRiSO (or an Aprilia that uses this cluster too) must have felt this effect someday...at least if leaves in a place with very humid days.

So...has anyone tried the hole drilling solution or any other yet?

BR,
Luis

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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:05 am

This has already been covered somewhere in forum before.....anyway, my 'most practical' (ie don't dick around drilling into the dashboard to let even more water and humid air in) is to put a car dehumidifier on top of the dash with a plastic bag over the lot whenever it's stored. Every few weeks/months just chuck the dehumidifier in the microwave and dry it out.

Works well for me in damp Manchester and despite sometimes on a cold day it will still slightly mist (when dash cools it likely pulls in damp air), but I can't see how drilling even more holes for cold damp air to enter will help at all.

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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:09 am

The only times (so far) i have experienced this problem was after heavy rain whilst parked in daytime temps of 17 to 20 deg C. Both times it cleared over an hour in sunlight.

If it ever became a longer term problem for me,  I still feel that the relative simplicity of putting a 12v warming element in the binnacle near the instrument pack would tempt me to try it.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:16 am

Mine has been misting it's dash every winter since 2008. Hasn't failed yet. Having said that the climate here is dry but also extreme with a 20*c temperature swing daily in summer and winter. Condensation is a problem. As I've said before though I've only ever replaced one GRiSO dash in fifteen years and that was on my old 1100 just before I sold it.
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Matias
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:26 am

Drilling the holes helps with the ventilation, improving the balance between internal and external temperatures.

It might let moisture go in, but it also helps a lot getting it out...
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Papa Lazarou
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:41 am

plastic bag with silicon gel packets in (you do save all those little packets which seem to come in everything, don't you?) over the cluster will work.
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Matias
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:54 am

Papa Lazarou wrote:
plastic bag with silicon gel packets in (you do save all those little packets which seem to come in everything, don't you?) over the cluster will work.
I'm going to give it a try...But I have not been saving those little bags...stupid me...
I will have to buy them somewhere...
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Matias
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:15 am

lcjohnny wrote:
Hi Matias - there is already a big opening in the bottom of the cluster where the mounting bracket comes in.  
So more venting will not help.  However i think that the answer may be to provide more warmth inside the instrument binnacle, i would consider fitting a 3w incandescent bulb inside to warm and circulate air.

I will try to stuff a small silica bag through that bracket opening....Has anyone ever tried it?
I am affraid heating it up won't help Johnny.
Hot air holds more humidity than cold air.
The most critical days are the sunny and cold ones. If you park the bike with the sun hitting the panel it's a disaster....The sun light goes through the "glass" increasing the internal temperature, and all the humidity hold by the hot air inside condensates on the "glass", cooled down by the external temperatures.
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Matias
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:18 am

Just to give you and idea how deep some people went through this problematic, here's a link to a thread from another forum:
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I was hopping to find a more "down to earth" solution....
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:20 am

Don't forget that the little Silica bags (like the big car bag) are hydroscopic....if you manage to force one inside the dash, it will dry out the air for a while until it becomes fully saturated...after that warm temperatures will drive the water out again & you're back to same but now with a water reservoir in the dash. That's why the big silica bag on top and chucking in microwave is sustainable cos you recover the water in your kitchen & not inside the dash.
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Matias
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:25 am

paulbrice wrote:
Don't forget that the little Silica bags (like the big car bag) are hydroscopic....if you manage to force one inside the dash, it will dry out the air for a while until it becomes fully saturated...after that warm temperatures will drive the water out again & you're back to same but now with a water reservoir in the dash.  That's why the big silica bag on top and chucking in microwave is sustainable cos you recover the water in your kitchen & not inside the dash.

That's clear. That small bag would have to be replaced periodically...
The problem with the big bag is that you acn only use with the bike parked in the garage. When you go out you are exposed
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motor-timothy
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:35 am

So my dash had an internal parasitic drain which I assume is due to the moisture inside causing oxidized connections to bridge but unless I take it apart that's speculation. Could have been another cause. My dash did fog up a lot, sometimes you could literally see a layer of water in the lower corner.

My new one occasionally fogs up but not as much, and I've developed the habit to cover the dash with an el-cheapo waterproof bicycle saddle cover whenever I leave it parked for more than an hour or so. In my mind that helps.
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:05 am

True you are 'exposed' Matias; but at least with the big silica bag in garage you start off with a dash full of dry air Wink ....
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:09 am

Matias wrote:

I am affraid heating it up won't help Johnny.
Hot air holds more humidity than cold air.
Matias you are right that warm air can hold more water vapout than cold. Water precipitates as air cools e.g. against a very cold surface.
that is why if you can heat the air it will re-absorb condensed H20 off adjacent surfaces and hold it again as invisible vapour.

But as i have not (yet) got this problem i do not need to experiment
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JohnA
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:34 am

I had some condensate get in my dash on a day it got cold and where it was raining days before. I’ve gone with Paul Brice’s solution and not had the problem again. I stick the dryer at the bottom of the dash, where the vent is and cover it in a bag like Paul suggested. I’d give that a go if it were me.
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Matias
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:57 am

Hi guys,
I already bought a bag of sílica gel. I'm going to give it a go. I will let you know... Thanks
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Red Leader
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:48 am

Hi Folks,

A while back (a few years) after getting droplets dripping off the inside of the plastic onto the dash I took my speedo off & stuck it in the airing cupboard.
When it was dry I took it apart & siliconed it. I recommend it!

I have not had any issue with my speedo since then apart from a very light fog on the odd occasion....the fog appears after about 10 miles (does not cover the whole screen) then disappears after a few miles...I assume the speedo gets warm from the backlighting.
The pin connections to the speedo on the loom do not show any signs of corrosion etc

I use my bike to get to work rain or shine/ ice & it sits all day outside uncovered as the rain hammers down...... so the silicone is helping.

Not a thread hijack:
More annoying to me is the crappy fuel cap which let's the water in & it's rubbish drain system...the 3 screws on the underside of the cap are rusting away nicely in spite of my regular unblocking ....lifting the tank up & faffing with that fitting plus the immediate 90 degree kink.....jeeez!!! That does rile me!!!!!

..........and that crappy forward facing menu button which broke on my bike years ago....


anyway...give the silicone a go!

Cheers
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:58 am

MENU SWITCH
@Red Leader - I replaced my menu button with one of these [url=Aramox Motorcycle Handlebar Switch,22mm Handlebar Moun]Aramox 22mm handlebar press switch[/url] (version A) 6000 miles ago it has survived rain and vibration and still works ok
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:59 am

sorry copied the link badly    linky
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Red Leader
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:28 am

Cheers Jon,
Most helpful.
Thanks for the link... I'll have a look at that!
Nice!!!
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Matias
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:12 am

Hi Red,

Thanks for the input.
If I, like you, would use the bike for comuting Iwould give it a go for sure. But I just use it for fun and travelling in the summer. I don't remember the last time I was riding in the rain....and the bike rests always in the garage....and I have the fly-screen...
Still I'm not imune to the problem...
Ideal would be to seal the complete cluster, but you cannot...They have that atmospheric pressure sensor inside (they could have choosen a better place for it...) and so you need this interior/exterior comunication.
So, during a rainy and humid week, this humidity creeps in and stays in....even if the bike doesn't leave the garage. My experienece is that you need a coulple of sunny weeks until it slowly comes out again.
So, I'm going to try the suggestion given in this thread and try to prevent the moisture to creep in during those humid days using the silica bags. I'm not using the bike on those days, anyway...

BR,
Matias
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moto
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:56 am

Matias wrote:
Just to give you and idea how deep some people went through this problematic, here's a link to a thread from another forum:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I was hopping to find a more "down to earth" solution....

I wrote the main substance of that thread. I think you understand the problem well and are taking a sensible approach with external desiccants. Good luck!

Moto
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PostSubject: Re: Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama   Instrument Cluster Condensation Drama Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:15 pm

Hi Moto,

I must say I was impressed with the sofistication of the solution you came up with...
You must be the Guru on the subject, so maybe you can give me your opinion on this theory...I believe a saw this idea in some thread....it doesn't sound bad:
- Consider you are not exposed to a big amplitude of atmospheric pressures
- Would it work to seal the cluster completely, having just an elastic membrane (not permeable to water molecules, if that is possible...), or a small tube with a piston inside, that would move inwards or outwards to compensate for those small atmospheric pressure variations...
Could this work or would the water molecules still find their way in through the plastic material structures?

Thanks,
Matias

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