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 Ready to Rollerize!

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:05 am

Tank off and look. It may be the cooling oil feed or it may simply be the oil pressure sender switch has decided to shit itself. If you whip the tank off it should be pretty cut and dried.

Pete
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:59 am

If it leaks immediately after doing work on it I'd check you tightened everything correctly in the rush to the line .....Mine had slight leak/weep that looked like joint with crankcase and barrel on RHS but it was just that the hydraulic tensioner bolt wasn't tight enough.
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GuZeee
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:17 am

Ooh sounds promising, I’ll take off the tank and look this evening. The tank is a pain but I’m getting used to it after having it off and on so many times. (I so wish I hadn’t done this with an almost full tank!)

Thanks!
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GuZeee
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:50 pm

I'm not sure about correct torque values for some of the bolts. I have the torque specs, but it's not always clear from the text what each corresponds to.

Ones I'd like to double check are:

1. RHS cam chain tensioner bolt (is it "Cylinder chain tensioner cap" = 30Nm?)
2. Cooling oil feed bolt in cylinder head (is it "Oil cap" = 25Nm?)
3. Cylinder head bolts (I have seen conflicting values on this: 25Nm, or 25Nm pre-torque, 43Nm final torque)
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:38 pm

Have you identified where the leak is coming from? That's the first thing.

You did get the sealing washers on the banjo and tensioner cap. To be honest I've never used a torque wrench on them, just done it by feel, I have a lifetime of experience though. Head nuts are 30ft/lbs from memory.

Pete
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GuZeee
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:22 pm

I wrote that question before opening it up, just to get the info in advance as a double-check.

However, I just took off the tank and looked. My my, wouldn’t you know it, one of the banjo bolts is missing it’s washer! The bottom one. You know, the one that could fall off and get lost at the cylinder base? Smile

Close inspection with a flashlight revealed my great luck that it was still hidden there and did not fly off in my test ride. I’m ready to put it back together now.

Note to anyone doing this procedure for the first time: there are *two* washers on the oil feed banjo bolts, one on each side! Don’t leave home without them!

Exciting conclusion to this tale of ups and downs to come...
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techman-001
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:58 pm

It is an exciting tale!

I'm finally doing my 8v rollerisation right now (currently lapping the valve seats on the LH cyl head), so I'm paying close attention to your adventures.


Cheers,
Terry
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GuZeee
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:20 pm

By making as many bone-headed errors as possible, I hope to help others learn what not to do. That’s just the kind of guy I am. Very Happy

Results from the latest repair and test ride:

SUCCESS!!!! Runs like a dream, pulls strong and hard, and doesn’t piss oil all over the place while doing it. What more could a guy want?

This has been fun, and I can’t repeat enough how much I appreciate the help from Pete and everyone else on this forum. Even a ham-fisted clueless bugger like myself can do this procedure with you lot on my side! Smile


Last edited by GuZeee on Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:27 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:44 pm

The Internet can be useful for something other than porn. It's a matter of sorting the wheat from the chaff.

Pete
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GuZeee
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:10 pm

OMG I flashed it with the Beetle Map and reset TPS etc. Wow, it's so great now! Once it warmed up the flat spot around 3-4k RPM was gone; it just pulls from any RPM without stumble or complaint. And the best part: the high idle problem seems to be gone! Once warm, it used to idle around 1750 RPM and hunt around, it never felt right. Now it sits at a rock-solid 1100 RPM at idle regardless of temp. I haven't had a chance to test in high ambient temperatures yet, so we'll see if it holds up. But in my test ride of only around 10 miles or so (16km) with ambient temp around 72F (22C) it was perfect.

And I haven't even balanced the throttle bodies yet! So happy with my GRiSO! Next comes oil change and cleaning out the sump, then TB balance. Then it's ready for some cosmetic work Smile


Last edited by GuZeee on Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:22 am

cheers
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GuZeee
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:35 am

Dropped the sump.

Looks pretty clean:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Wait is that a... yup. A random screw in the bottom of the sump! Surprised

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GuZeee
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:46 am

Wow, it’s one of the two screws that holds the return oil screen in place. It was hanging loosely on one end by the remaining screw. I was one pothole away from having unfiltered oil returning from the sump.

So glad I pulled this off to have a look! Thanks for the advice, again!
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:10 pm

It's not a return screen, it's the pick-up screen for the cooling oil circuit. Yours is the second bike I know of that this has occurred on, we found the same thing on one of the engines we rollerised. Cot common obviously but worth checking them when you have the sump off.

Pete
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GuZeee
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:12 pm

Ah, thanks for the clarification on the filter screen.

Removing the sump was more work than I expected, with cleaning off the old gasket material etc. But it turned out to be well worth it!

The next job was removing the charcoal canister. Tomorrow my manometer should arrive and I can balance the throttle bodies.
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GuZeee
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:04 pm

Well, I've got a few miles on it since the rollerization. I removed the charcoal canister and extra hoses, plugging the intake holes with a screw. It is running absolutely beautifully and is not leaking oil or doing anything strange. It idles perfectly, and the warning light doesn't come on any more. It pulls strong and sounds great.

I wasn't able to balance the throttle bodies because the manometer I bought doesn't seem to be able to handle the fluctuating pressure and I can't get a reading. But it is running so smoothly I don't think it needs it.

I'm so happy with this bike! And I'm very pleased that I have roller tappets now and nothing got broken in the process. This engine is so easy to work on, now I know I can pretty much do anything needed without taking it to a mechanic.

Things I've learned:
- Definitely mark the TDC marks on the crankshaft (one for each cylinder) for reference!

- Start with a quarter tank of gas or less so you don't have to wrestle a heavy tank that sloshes around

- Before removing the fuel line from the tank, remove the left side injector so the rigid fuel line has room to move without getting kinked

- Make sure the camshaft pin is aligned with the bottom screw hole, on both sides!

- The oil cooling banjo bolts in the heads each have two washers, top and bottom. Careful when removing so the washer doesn't fall off into the engine V between cylinders

Based on my experience, I would definitely do this again. I feel like I know what's going on in that engine when I ride it, and know everything that's been done to it.

So I have to agree with everything I've learned from Pete and others on this forum on what to do with a pre-2013 GRiSO:
- Roller tappet upgrade and adjust valves
- New ECU map (from beetle) and reset TPS
- Remove and clean out sump (never know what you'll find in there!)
- For USA bikes, remove charcoal canister and related hoses, and vent hose valve
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:36 pm

Excellent! Well done.

Pete
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techman-001
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:07 pm

GuZeee wrote:

I'm so happy with this bike! And I'm very pleased that I have roller tappets now and nothing got broken in the process. This engine is so easy to work on, now I know I can pretty much do anything needed without taking it to a mechanic.

Everyone loves a happy ending, and your story, told in installments has been really interesting to follow. I think it will be a inspiration to  Rollerizers for years to come Smile
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GuZeee
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:57 pm

techman-001 wrote:

Everyone loves a happy ending, and your story, told in installments has been really interesting to follow. I think it will be a inspiration to  Rollerizers for years to come Smile

I’m glad it’s been interesting and I hope it’s helpful to others too! There were some scary moments in there but that makes the happy ending all the more sweet Smile
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:23 am

Mechanical manometers can be a real challenge. Ask how I know...

For those with such gauges:
- Soft solder up the hole in the gauge that goes to the vacuum;
- drill a very tiny hole in the solder, less than 0.25 mm (smaller the better - creates a vacuum impedance);
- I had adapters on mine, and I filled up the adapters with paper towel - making a muffler to smooth out the vacuum pulses;

try it again and yo, no needle dancing.

The alternative is to make a large receiver to get rid of the pulses, but that tends not to work well on motorcycles.
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GuZeee
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:25 am

Thanks for the tips. It’s an inexpensive digital manometer, but the same technique might work.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:46 am

Invest in a Carbtune. Money well spent!


cheers
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:16 am

Yes, really, it's a great tool.

You could also just try getting a couple of screw clamps and using them as dampers on the vacuum tubes.

Pete
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GuZeee
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:53 pm

OK after buying two different things that didn’t work, I finally ordered the Carbtune Pro like I should have done in the first place! It arrived today. It’s perfect! The supplied fittings fit perfectly. I’ll do the job on Saturday. Can’t wait!
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GuZeee
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PostSubject: Re: Ready to Rollerize!   Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:16 pm

OK I did the TB balance using the Carbtune. It was quick and easy. It wasn’t very far off at all, just needed 1/8 turn of the adjuster nut and about the same on the right air bleed screw. Both sides perfectly aligned in the Carbtune after that.

Took it for a brief test run, seems smooth. Not a huge difference but at least I know it’s right now.

Next job is changing the transmission and shaft oil. Tomorrow!
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