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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon May 13, 2019 6:47 am

But that is almost completely irrelevant to the breather system???

Do you understand the inputs that effect oil expulsion and the breather system? This isn't me being rude. I'm simply trying to understand where you are coming from.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon May 13, 2019 7:26 am


I've replaced my breather pipes and I connected them to the same spigots, but I can't remember whether the right one was the upper or lower. I have a feeling it's the lower, but I can't check it until Thursday.



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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon May 13, 2019 8:14 am

Yes I said pipe 4 ISN'T part of breather system.....

What are the lines from sump to throttle bodies for?? (I haven't got them) and it doesn't make sense to pipe sump blowby direct to TBs??. For some US/CAN systems I thought there are fuel breather lines back into TBs (as well as the drawn two stubs from your stepper) as part of fuel breather evap cannister underneath engine.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon May 13, 2019 8:17 am

Paul. In that diagram the lines are fron the fuel pump to the injectors. They are the fuel delivery rail, they have nothing to do with the breather system???
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2highlander
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon May 13, 2019 8:51 am

Pete Roper wrote:
But that is almost completely irrelevant to the breather system???

Do you understand the inputs that effect oil expulsion and the breather system? This isn't me being rude. I'm simply trying to understand where you are coming from.

If You point to me being rude Pete, this is not really meant rude, but is caused by my poor English knowledge which is all but not perfect. I apologize.

Yes, the omnious pipe 4 is irrelevant to the breather system, however in the spare catalogue's pics it looks like the second upper spigot of the airbox isn't connected to anything, but this obviously is the spigot where the stepper hose goes to. Maybe that's the reason why this image was posted.

I think, in principle it should even be the same connecting the stepper- and cooler-to-airbox hoses to the left spigot of the airbox or vice versa.


Last edited by 2highlander on Mon May 13, 2019 9:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon May 13, 2019 8:59 am

These aren't part of the blow-by system. They're the cooling/lubrication oil feed to heads via the oil cooler.

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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon May 13, 2019 9:37 am

LOL.....
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2highlander
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon May 13, 2019 9:44 am

Mark, definitely no! If it were the oil cooler's hoses I would have drawn them somewhere to the front side of the sump, just where they really are.

These hoses have been installed with the 1400ccm mod. They were explained with the supposedly fact that the 1200 ccm cylinders have a bore where the oil runs back from the heads to the crankcase, whereas the 1400 ccm have not, see pic below. However, meantime I've heard that those hoses should not really be necessary, but I have no idea how this could be solved. Fact actually is they are installed and I cannot exclude them to take influence on pressure conditions in the crankcase and as a consequence perhaps causing increasing oil consumption.

Btw, all modifications due to 1400ccm were made by Radical Guzzi, love him or hate him. Meanwhile, my relationship to the Bronold clan is massively disturbed. I do not trust in his mods because there were some issues when I received the bike back. Valve clearences too wide, tb's not balanced, bulged snorkels between airbox and tbs and a few things more. Just my 2 cents *grzgrmbl


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Last edited by 2highlander on Mon May 13, 2019 1:10 pm; edited 5 times in total
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2highlander
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon May 13, 2019 9:54 am

paulbrice wrote:
LOL.....

Paul, with all my respect, there is nothing to lol about! If I knew it better, I would not take advantage from this forum! The only thing I did was relying a well known customizer, maybe I was mistaken! For explanation of the hoses see previous post!
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon May 13, 2019 12:33 pm

Interesting....Apart from preventing excess oil gathering up at the cylinder heads, I wouldn't expect they affect the blow-by because the bottom ends of the pipes should be fairly deep in oil ie they are just flowing oil at bottom??.

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2highlander
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon May 13, 2019 1:45 pm

In principle You are right. But I can't really say whether the oil just flows or is pressed back. If the blowby system is working beyond its limits there may be a rest load of pressure in the heads. Perhaps guru Pete knows a solution how to get rid of these bloody hoses and making me able to reinstall my magnetic oil screw. I miss it, it can't prevent damage but eventually predict it.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon May 13, 2019 2:40 pm

drunken
2highlander wrote:
Pete Roper wrote:
But that is almost completely irrelevant to the breather system???

Do you understand the inputs that effect oil expulsion and the breather system? This isn't me being rude. I'm simply trying to understand where you are coming from.

If You point to me being rude Pete, this is not really meant rude, but is caused by my poor English knowledge which is all but not perfect. I apologize.

Yes, the omnious pipe 4 is irrelevant to the breather system, however in the spare catalogue's pics it looks like the second upper spigot of the airbox isn't connected to anything, but this obviously is the spigot where the stepper hose goes to. Maybe that's the reason why this image was posted.

I think, in principle it should even be the same connecting the stepper- and cooler-to-airbox hoses to the left spigot of the airbox or vice versa.

No, I was saying I wasn't meaning to be rude. I do have to say though a lot of these descriptions are making my brain hurt!

In your hand drawn diagram you have two hoses going from the sump to the heads? What on earth are they for?
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2highlander
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon May 13, 2019 3:39 pm

They do not go to the heads but to a fitting at the bottom of the inner side of each cylinder. Explanation please see a few posts earlier. They are supposed to replace the bores in the 1200 cylinders which the 1400 ones supposedly do  not have or do not continue in the right way to the further bore to the crankcase. I must believe this, I don't really know this by myself and therefore do not dare to remove those mysterious hoses and close the appropriate fittings without fearing to do harm to the engine.


Last edited by 2highlander on Mon May 13, 2019 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon May 13, 2019 4:32 pm


Ka-Ching! Idea Exclamation


Pete...I'll email you...


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2highlander
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon May 13, 2019 4:37 pm

Ey Mark, You will let me die stupid, eh?
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon May 13, 2019 4:47 pm


I promise not to let you die without knowing, but it involves proprietary information. I have to consult with Pete first.



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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon May 13, 2019 6:16 pm

Ah! Those will be cooling oil return hoses then. OK, I can gather their purpose, we simply machined the heads to allow a return internally. I imagine this is what Mark was referring to.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon May 13, 2019 6:45 pm

2highlander wrote:

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Can you post a pic of the hoses where they connect to the heads?


They're a revelation*, but nothing to do with blow-by. Hence, my confusion.










*not in a good way.





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2highlander
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon May 13, 2019 11:44 pm

Sure, but will take a little time. As said before, I think the hoses are fitted to the cylinders, not to the heads.

If head reworking is needed as well for the fittings as for an internal routing, the second one is the much more elegant and logical one. It would have doubtlessly been my choice if I were the mech.
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed May 15, 2019 10:59 am

As promised, here are pics where the oil return hoses are fitted. It`s near the top and the coarse middle of the barrels valley side.

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed May 15, 2019 4:01 pm

Bloody difficult to make much out from those but I'll grab a spare head and see if I can work out what's been done.
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2highlander
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed May 15, 2019 4:11 pm

This was a quickie Pete. For more details I will need time to rip off some parts...or first activate my endoscope cam on friday.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed May 15, 2019 5:22 pm


Look like they're connected to the gaping maw hole where the ETS is inserted on mine.


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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed May 15, 2019 8:24 pm

Well if that's the case they will be entirely purposeless and the cooling function won't be occurring in the heads as the return will be blocked. Suspect
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2highlander
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 project update.   1400 project update. - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed May 15, 2019 11:45 pm

Yep, that's the one! It's not only me who doubts that oil will come out here at all. I'm near to simply remove them... What does the abbreviation of Mark's ETS stand for?
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