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beetle
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beetle

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PostSubject: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:03 am

The 1200 8V. It's marvellous. Wonderfull. Overcooled. Worse when you embiggen it to 1400. Stupidly overcooled. Add an oil thermostat you say. Can't be done, no room, you say. Wrong, says I.

Behold my thermostatically cooled Huge Block GRiSO. Fear it's oily hotness.


Item #1. Improved Racing Compact High-Flow Oil Cooler Thermostat. Available in various operational  temperatures. I chose the FSC-215.

Specs:
Typical stabilisation temp 215ºF (102ºC)
Activation temp 212ºF (100ºC)
Full flow temp 233ºF (112ºC)

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I used Aeroflow -6AN 100 series hose with various connectors and doohickies to connect the thermostat to the oil radiator. Initially I planned to mount it in the oil cooler housing. The thermostat can be made to fit, but the hose connectors make it virtually impossible to hook up. I decided to mount it under the right 'wing'.


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No leaks during testing.








All tidied up.


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Wing on. What thermostat?


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OK, this wasn't a cheap exercise. Total costs during proof-of-concept was $970 Australian dollars. pale

Final cost of functional installation: $740 Australian dollars. pale

I bloody hope this works long-term. Full test ride tomorrow.


ghezzi will now tell me how he would have done it with carbon fibre. Razz


cheers




Last edited by beetle on Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bahamazoo
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bahamazoo

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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:42 am


if you can't see it, is is a farkle??
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:54 am


No, it's a geegaw.


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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:29 am

Wonderful. I was envisioning such a thing on your behalf
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Guzzi Cat
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:33 am

Nice work, Thumbs Up it’s a pity that all 8v engines weren’t fitted with a thermostat from the factory!!
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:41 pm

You win Beetle, carbon fibre turns out to be 'not very good' at dissipation of heat.
Hey, but if you were after heat retention in winter, it might be a good thing, right?
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:29 pm


So CF would be good for winter, but not so much in summer?

Hmm.... scratch



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sideshowbob
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:37 pm

Nicely done! That AN stuff can get pricy, but great stuff.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:55 am

Well, first test tide was quite promising. Unfortunately, the weather here was quite warm. Ambient temp was around 28C, so I look forward to a cooler day for further tests.

Engine temp was 71C when I started logging. It took 4 minutes to get to 100C. Peak temp was 115C, with an average of 109C over a 33 minute ride. For those interested in the raw data, you can download the log (in excel format) from my drop box.

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The hardware performed flawlessly. No leaks. cheers






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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:59 pm

beetle wrote:


The hardware performed flawlessly. No leaks.  cheers

This is a BIG Plus Rolling Eyes Laughing Well done cheers
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Brent S
Grignapoco
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:50 pm

Nice job there Beetle.

The temp stats you are getting are quite different to mine. Fitted one of those MG Cycle adjustable oil cooler covers. First ride with it on. 24 degree Melbourne day with a decent northerly wind blowing. Mostly a steady 60kph, with the odd stop for traffic and a few side streets. Dipstick thermometer showed between 117-120 degrees C oil temps. Cooler vents were open.

Your ambient temps were approx 3-4 degrees warmer than mine, but your oil temp settled about 10 degrees lower. I wouldn’t have been able to get down to 109 degrees without Riding the thing into the bay. Starting to wonder if my thermometer is reading high. What was your average speed if you don’t mind my asking?
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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:52 pm

Brent S wrote:
Starting to wonder if my thermometer is reading high.

Haven't you checked it in boiling water yet, Brent?
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Brent S
Grignapoco
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:01 pm

Err, no. I haven’t. Sheer laziness. You’ve caught me out Dave! Very Happy
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Brent S
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:10 pm

Ok. Straight back out to the garage for me. Dipstick removed and cooling down. Pot of cold water ready on stove. I have a Weber meat thermometer which I’ll use as a calibration comparison. Will report back shortly.
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Brent S
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:34 pm

Thermometer calibration test completed. The Weber probe thermometer and the MG dipstick one tracked each other almost identically, except for at around 80 degrees C the dipstick fell behind by 1-2 degrees, but it rapidly caught back up. The Weber read from 99.9 to 100.1 degrees C for several minutes in the boiling water. Pretty damned accurate. The dipstick sat steadfastly on the 100 mark and didn’t budge at all. I was holding both gauges by hand, ensuring the same depth into the water, and not touching the base of the pan which may have altered the reading. I’m pretty satisfied with the results.
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bahamazoo
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:10 pm

if you have the remote Weber probe, you could mount it up on the dash, save doing yoga trying to read it when under way...


Last edited by bahamazoo on Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:12 pm

Brent S wrote:
Nice job there Beetle.

The temp stats you are getting are quite different to mine. Fitted one of those MG Cycle adjustable oil cooler covers. First ride with it on. 24 degree Melbourne day with a decent northerly wind blowing. Mostly a steady 60kph, with the odd stop for traffic and a few side streets. Dipstick thermometer showed between 117-120 degrees C oil temps. Cooler vents were open.

Your ambient temps were approx 3-4 degrees warmer than mine, but your oil temp settled about 10 degrees lower. I wouldn’t have been able to get down to 109 degrees without Riding the thing into the bay. Starting to wonder if my thermometer is reading high. What was your average speed if you don’t mind my asking?




Mine is engine temp reported by the ECU. Average speed was 80 km/h over the whole 33 minutes logged. Breaking that down further to an average 106 km/h over a 27 minute period that includes 2 minutes of idling and 3 minutes of speeds below 60 km/h, and a top speed of very fast indeed.

If I can find a sensor with short probe, I intend to measure the oil temp feed directly into the heads.


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bahamazoo
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:16 pm

can you monitor it via the logging plug onto your phone..?
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bahamazoo
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:31 pm

mind you, I can see it now....

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Brent S
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:35 am

Thanks Beetle. The dipstick will be reading from the very bottom of the sump. Imagine the temps there will be different to other parts of the engine where oil flow velocity etc varies. Also, from the limited observations I’ve made to date, higher cruising speeds generally mean lower oil temps, presumably due to the air volume going through the cooler. Interesting to compare notes on these things.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:30 am



bahamazoo wrote:
can you monitor it via the logging plug onto your phone..?


You can monitor pretty much all the engine data this way. However, the ECU monitors engine temperature, which can vary enormously depending on where the ETS is inserted. The 1200 had a threaded hole in the base of the barrel. The ETS was on the end of a tube. It was subject to air cooling as well. The 1400 barrels have a threaded hole directly into a cavity in the barrel casting. It appears to be part of the oil return path from the head to the sump. Michael had made an adapter for the ETS adapter tube to screw into this hole. I don't believe I was getting accurate engine temperature measurement with this setup.

Of course, you can't screw the ETS directly into this cavity. The ETS has a M12 thread, the cavity screw has an M14 thread. I found an ETS with an M14 thread, but the response curve only matches the stock Guzzi one from about 85C to 105C. It diverges rapidly above and below. I had to edit the ADC lookup table in the map to get the new ETS to work correctly with the ECU.

I have a Trail Tech temperature gauge on the bike already. It's sensor is attached to the head, but external head temperature isn't the same as the "engine temperature" used in the map. Trail Tech make a liquid sensor probe for their gauges, but I'll have to be a clever boy to get it to fit into the oil line plumbing.


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Brent S wrote:
Thanks Beetle. The dipstick will be reading from the very bottom of the sump. Imagine the temps there will be different to other parts of the engine where oil flow velocity etc varies. Also, from the limited observations I’ve made to date, higher cruising speeds generally mean lower oil temps, presumably due to the air volume going through the cooler. Interesting to compare notes on these things.


I agree. There's probably an optimum speed where the cooler is most efficient. Ambient temperature, of course, is the ultimate factor, but even on 35+ days, the cooling affect of air rushing over the radiator is quite effective.

I have noted that on longer rides, as the heat eventually "sinks' into engine, even on cooler days you can keep the engine temp up over 100. Note that isn't necessarily oil temperature, but if the hardware is hot, then Mayo is less likely to form, IMO.


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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:38 am


Teething problems, it seems.

Hmm. That looks suspiciously like an oil leak.

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Yep. Oops.


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Found the issue. The numpty who installed the new plumbing didn't tighten up all the connectors, did he? I'll have to have words with him.






Visions of Ron going over the high side were swimming in my head. pale



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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:01 pm

Tut, Tut!
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sideshowbob
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:38 pm

I have to give my mechanic a stern talking to on occasion.
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Clancy
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project Icon_minitime1Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:37 pm

Just to throw another temp monitoring thingy into the mix...

I didn't have anything to do in the workshop so I decided to do this as a little project.
I seem to always need to have a project running to maintain my sanity....or is that to maintain my insanity.....not sure, doesn't matter.

Anyhoo, from ebay I got an engine temp monitoring module for AU$9.50, a thermowell for AU$5 and an adapter to fit the dipstick hole. Add a length of wire suitable for ovens & some handle bar mounts, and I should be able to monitor oil temp while riding.

I get terrible mileage (down to 13km/l) commuting in Canberra winters (& autumn, & spring...if we have one).
This cheapo temp monitoring unit can be calibrated and has a temperature settable output to activate a relay, mainly for an alarm, but I'm toying with the idea of eventually having it open & shut a vent on the oil cooler.

Haven't finished it yet, had more important 'projects' arise, haven't yet found a (cheap) suitable case to protect it from the weather, may not work well anyway, but it's something to play with Wink

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