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 Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe

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beetle
Oz1200Guzzi
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
Oz1200Guzzi

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Join date : 2014-03-13
Age : 66

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PostSubject: Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe   Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe Icon_minitime1Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:25 am

Gurus and others,

I am "thinking" of improving the suspension on my 1200 Sport. I have standard forks (recently re-sealed and oiled) and the original rear shock - both of which are 14 years old now. Should I do anything?

I am not even sure I can tell the difference - you get used the what you have and I suppose I have set things to be as best they can be.

All advice accepted, including "leave it alone".
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beetle
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beetle

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Join date : 2013-09-30

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PostSubject: Re: Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe   Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe Icon_minitime1Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:09 am



Given you've done eleventy thousand kilometres, it's probably due for a spruce-up. I haven't ridden a ditch-pump Sport, so I cannot comment on stock luxuriousnous. The 8V Sports I've ridden weren't too foul, but I rode a kidney-thumping GRiSO for 10,000 km. I'm no judge, but my GRiSO is now comfy. Since the Matris insertion, it's been reported as "plush".

Plus, I'm in the "other" camp. Besides, I've a gut-full of Tennessee Cordial. Anything I type should be considered suspect.




What?





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mark111
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PostSubject: Re: Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe   Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe Icon_minitime1Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:44 am

Tony,

Speak to Terry Hay at Shock Treatment, he rebuilt the standard rear shock and the forks on my 1st (Black) GRiSO with significant improvement in ride and handling.
A whole lot cheaper than replacing the rear shock and fitting a Matris upgrade to the forks.

Matris is better but a whole lot more expensive.
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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Oz1200Guzzi

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PostSubject: Re: Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe   Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe Icon_minitime1Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:57 am

Thanks Marks.

I raise you one cordial...
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe   Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe Icon_minitime1Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:03 am

One of the biggest Achilles Heels of the Sport, Breva and Norge are the forks. The Marzocchis were always less than brilliant and compared to a modern, fully adjustable, USD fork they are both crude and flimsy. They are fine within their design brief for a 'Touring' bike and for a Norge for example I'd be perfectly happy with them but if you want a serious improvement I'd suggest getting out your tape measure and vernier calipers and looking for a USD front end, preferably a Showa, of similar length and with the same spindle diameter and yoke spacing. Showas are a magnificent and eminently tunable fork and are streets ahead of the Marzocchis. You can get excellent, and I mean 'Excellent' results without having to go for aftermarket cartridges but if you want to go that extra mile you can at a later date.

At the back there are plenty of choices of shock available and once again it may well be possible to find something easily adapted from another machine. Whatever you get though it won't be right 'Out of the box' and will require tuning work to reach its full potential.
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Nobleswood
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PostSubject: Re: Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe   Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe Icon_minitime1Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:09 am

Are the forks on the Sports the same damper rod Marzocchi's found on the later V11's ?

I'll be interested to know what the specifications are for your model; fork length, yoke offset etc
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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Oz1200Guzzi

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PostSubject: Re: Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe   Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe Icon_minitime1Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:54 pm

Mark (Beetle), I believe the 4V Sport has the same suspension as the 2V (ditch pump). No it's not too foul but it could probably be better, methinks.

Mark III, I will give Terry a call and discuss.

Pete, I believe the Sport forks are different to the Norge and Breva - though this is hearsay and I've probably got it all wrong, now why would they be different? I don't think I could be arsed going to USD forks.

Nobleswood, I can't answer that question as I do not know. I know there was a progressive spring kit from HyperPro that was supposed to assist (including "special" fork oil), however I think more than a change in spring rate could be needed.

I do know the amount of oil in each leg really changes the response: 380 ml/leg is soft; 390 ml/leg is firm; 400 ml/leg is quite hard.

The read shock I think, is designed to stop the arse of the bike from hitting the ground - not much else. FFS it has Soft/Hard adjustment screw that seems to do little, like on all the CARC bikes.
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Nobleswood
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PostSubject: Re: Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe   Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe Icon_minitime1Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:18 pm

Tony
I was thinking you’d measure the forks etc. The Showas were on a lot of bikes & are as cheap as chips. So rather than tart up the old ones to be ‘ok-ish’ see if you can swap them out for ones that even bog standard are better. But to begin with you need to find out what you have.

This is where Ghezzi would chime in about head angles & trail etc…
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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Oz1200Guzzi

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PostSubject: Re: Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe   Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe Icon_minitime1Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:23 pm

If Ghezzi was still here...

I will find out the model of the legs - they are printed on the inside of the slider - different parts for left and right as left is compression and right is rebound. I have reached out to Terry Hay as he is only 20 km from me.
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BrianD
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PostSubject: Re: Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe   Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:56 am

I was getting fed up with the handling on my Sport and initially was looking at inserts but at a cost; instead I went for Andreani spring kit for the Sport - told them what sort of roads and riding style along with weight and they supplied some springs.

I ended up making some new fork spacers so that I got the right sag at the front and just wound the preload on the rear. Front Compression and rebound was a case of riding the same set of roads with different number of clicks until you get the right setup that suits you along with rear damping [adjusting one thing at a time].

It's a cheaper option and I'm happy at moment.
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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Oz1200Guzzi

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PostSubject: Re: Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe   Ditch Pump Upgrade - well maybe Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:13 pm

I have reached out to Terry Hayes, who has responded. I just need to ring him and go from there. I have plenty of time to think about it as we are in an extended lockdown and this would probably not be considered "necessary".
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