Project Moto

First time using GuzziDiag, but I went into the "actors" menu and ran the L&R ignition and injector test. I heard ticking/clicking for all... Not sure if that's good or bad, lol. No faults are recorded.

Best to pull the injectors form the heads to test. Place them in a container to confirm fuel is coming out. Should be the same amount for both sides.

For the spark test, pull the main plugs and rest them against the valve cover to ground it. Turn off the light and see if you can see spark.

My two black beauties...

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Got the bike running, though it doesn't like to idle. Issue was mainly a fuel line from the pump to injectors that was toast. Have a new front tire ordered so it'll be road worthy, but the idle is definitely a bit funky. Wants to die, then will rev a bit to keep it alive. Once warm it even out a bit, but still has a tendency to die at idle. Would a Beetle map fix this or are there other issues I should look for?

No. It's related to the throttlebodies. Someone has messed about with them. Have you got cables and Guzzidiag up and running?

Yes, I have cables and Guzzidiag.

Connect it up and see what your TPS reading is. It should be 4.6. If it isn't? Check the throttlebody balance. If it is reasonably close you can try moving the throttle stop screw until the TPS reading is 4.6 and see how it runs.

Whether this has any effect will depend entirely on whether any other adjustments have been made to the bell crank screw or throttle linkage rod and whether the TPS has previously been recalibrated.

Unfortunately there are several variable adjustments that can effect the sensor input and while it may be able to correct any one of them individually any combination of more than one is much harder and if the TPS has been recalibrated it's pretty much impossible!

The "Throttle" reads 5.10 degrees when the bike is off. Is that what you're referring to? Sorry, brand new to GuzziDiag, so excuse my ignorance.

Yes, that's what I mean.

Open the throttle and snap out closed and see if it changes.

If it doesn't, connect your manometer, warm the bike up and balance the TB's. Air bleeds closed, use the bell crank screw to balance at 3;500-4,000 rpm. Close the throttle and allow the engine to return to idle and then whichever side has the higher manifold depression? Open the air bleed to balance at idle.

If the TPS reading is still higher than 4.6 lower it by winding the throttle stop screw out until it reads 4.6. If it still won't idle or hunts try clearing the trims using Guzzidiag. If that doesn't help? Start looking for an unmolested set of TB's.

Thanks, Pete! I've got a Digi Sync manometer on the way, but a few more questions... If I'm looking at the service manual pics correctly, it seems there are tubes already hooked up to the inlets where I should connect the manometer... What might these be? Also, I think the "forbidden screw" has been messed with as there isn't much yellow paint covering it. Does that really mean the TB is junk now, or can I simply adjust it back to stock setting somehow?

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Those tubes are for the charcoal canister used to absorb expelled hydrocarbons venting from the tank. You disconnect them to perform the TB balance and reconnect them afterwards.

Yes, that screw seems to have been messed with. If it was just that screw it may be fixable but if the bell crank screw or the linkage rod ball joints have been messed with or the TPS has been recalibrated after it has been moved then the instruments are basically unrecoverable.

I'm going through this with someone else in another thread at the moment, I'll see if I can find it and link it up as I don't want to end up endlessly repeating information and instructions.

I'd also like to add that it's also very frustrating when one spends time and effort explaining stuff and then suddenly the 'Line goes dead'! Communication ceases and there is no follow up. If I'm not explaining stuff clearly enough? Please let me know. Likewise if you find yourself in way over your head and decide to either quit or take it to a professional please at least give me the courtesy of saying so.

Ah, ok. The service manual doesn't show the charcoal canister lines hooked up to the inlets, which confused me. I don't think there's a bike shop within several hundred miles that would work on it, so I'm stuck figuring out myself, lol.

By "instruments" being unrecoverable, do you mean just the TB, or other components as well? There's a used 1100 TB on ebay right now I could pick up for $100 if you think this one is a waste of time...

The problem is without casting an expert eye over them it's hard to tell if they have been messed with as well. The important thing to look for is the yellow sealing paint on the throttlestop screw/s and the ball joint lock nuts on the linkage rod. The other thing that has paint on it ex-factory is the bell crank screw but, annoyingly, this is moved when you balance them so if the pant is disturbed it is not unusual!

Incidentally you don't need to limit yourself to GRiSO throttlebodies. All of the 2 valve per cylinder CARC bikes, (With the exception of the Bellagio which you didn't get in the US.) use the same TB's so any set off a Breva1100, a 2V Norge 1200, a 2V 1200 Sport or a GRiSO 1100 will all fit the bill. The lower the mileage and unmolested the better!

Paint appears to be untouched on the linkage rod. Salvageable, or waste of time and I should get another TB? The '07 GRiSO 1100 one on ebay is the cheapest I could find of any model for $120 shipped. I can clearly see the yellow paint is untouched on that one, but no clue on mileage.

Try blocking off the stepper first and see what happens.

Got a new front tire mounted and the DigiSynce came in, so I tried to balance the TB's but the bike is still having issues. I managed to get it balanced at 3-4k rpm, but at idle it's off considerably (about 10% difference from one side to the other). Must goose the heck out of it to get it to start, idles rough, and dies constantly. I have a mechanic trying to do some research on it through a buddy of his who owns a bike shop and is familiar with Guzzi's. Didn't think it would be this big of a pain in the neck to get her sorted...

The TB's have been monstered. Find a second hand set that haven't been screwed with and swap them out. Believe me, it's the only thing that will fix it properly.

I'm assuming you have re-calibrated the TPS after the high speed balance?

I didn't reset the TPS as I thought that might further FUBAR the system without first achieving balance at idle.

No, the sequence is.

1.High speed balance after closing both air bleeds.

2. Kill motor with kill switch and recalibrate TPS, (Moving the bell crank changes the TPS value.).

3. Restart the engine and balance at idle by opening the air bleed on the side with the highest depression until equilibrium is reached.

Ah. Shoot. Ok. So there's a small chance the TPS is hindering achieving balance at idle. I'll do that and if still no joy, I'll pick up that GRiSO TB on ebay...

Love the look of this bike as you bring it back to life.

As you sort the final tuning issues out with Pete's guidance,I can't recall have the basics been covered first?

Were the 1100 Grisos one of the bikes with the melting in tank fuel lines;if so have they been fixed?

Have the valves been adjusted to give a good tuning baseline,before you get to the fine stuff?

The stepper motors can cause you grief;it may not be the fix recommended by experts,but for my riding & area,I simply blanked my stepper motor off completely,fwiw ymmv fyi.

Good luck & enjoy the new ride

There was a bad fuel line in the tank and it was replaced. Valves were inspected and only a very slight adjustment made. I haven't tested or touched the stepper motor as my understanding is if that system isn't functioning correctly, it produces a high idle (~1300 rpm) and blocking it off will return it to the normal 1100-ish. The problem with mine is it doesn't want to start or idle at all.

Just a word of caution. Even if you are using a 'Very experienced mechanic' it is vital that they understand how the W5AM controller works when used with the Guzzi TB set-up. Many professionals still think you can randomly fiddle about with adjustments on the throttlebodies without realising that as soon as you move the stop screws or linkage rod length you have lost the baseline for both fuel and spark and consequently the engine will never perform correctly.

The importance of this has been covered by myself, Beetle and others numerous times on this forum and I'm sure it is easily searchable in the technical section and wishing and hoping that somehow 'This time will be different' is a quixotic fantasy.

Please be careful. And if you do replace the TB's follow the tuning instructions precisely and to the letter. If it doesn't fix it, ask more questions. There will either be something wrong with the new TB's or something has been overlooked or done wrong.

Ok, my "new" TB arrived. I hope to install it soon, but before I do, is there any witchcraft necessary with the ECU first, or can I simply swap out the TB's, then go through the balancing process again with the TPS reset between high and idle balancing? Thanks, Pete.

Nope. No need to kill a chicken and trad its entrails. Just bolt them on and then do the tune up. If you haven’t already done so it would be wise to check the valve clearances prior to undertaking the tune.

If you are lucky and the *New* TB’s haven’t been messed with it’ll probably fire up and run fairly well. Tuning it correctly will be icing on the cake.