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 Rollerised ??

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rick pope
Kel
lcjohnny
paulbrice
Rolf Halvorsen
Pete Roper
beetle
kindoy2
Mariner92
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rick pope
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
rick pope


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Join date : 2019-08-17
Age : 70

Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 08, 2023 7:21 pm

Kel wrote:
To clarify, I was referring to the old expression - you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Conversely, you can drive a man to drink, but you can't make him water.

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Pete Roper
GRiSO Capo
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Pete Roper


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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:34 pm

I've known Rolf for years, he's a good dude. I don't think there was any malice in his questions, it's probably just stuff 'Changing in translation' when communicating in not your first language.

Anyway, hopefully he'll pull the sump and spacer and all will become clear.
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Rolf Halvorsen
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
Rolf Halvorsen


Posts : 21
Join date : 2021-11-19

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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:54 pm

Pete

Your picture says it all. Thank you for posting this.

Why has not the factory given out any warnings?

Rolf
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bjor
Biondino
Biondino
bjor


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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:15 am

My friend Rolf is what we call a "petimeter" in the sence that he never gives up or stops asking questions until he genuinly understands why something is or functions as it does. I know he thinks higly of Pete's competence, which he has often referred to in different settings.
And when he understands and is convinced, he can even admit he has learned something...
This is a good quality and is what brings us foreward! And it's is also the reason why -among other things- Rolf has fixed and tuned tons of gear boxes for lots happy of Guzzisti in all Scandinavia.

Rolf, my humble advice to you is that you add a GRiSO to your collection, both to dive into it's tecnical secrets as well as to discover the sheere joy of riding it! You wouldn't regret it, - promise! cheers
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Rolf Halvorsen
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
Rolf Halvorsen


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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:41 am

bjor wrote:
My friend Rolf is what we call a "petimeter" in the sence that he never gives up or stops asking questions until he genuinly understands why something is or functions as it does. I know he thinks higly of Pete's competence, which he has often referred to in different settings.
And when he understands and is convinced, he can even admit he has learned something...
This is a good quality and is what brings us foreward! And it's is also the reason why -among other things- Rolf has fixed and tuned tons of gear boxes for lots happy of Guzzisti in all Scandinavia.

Rolf, my humble advice to you is that you add a GRiSO to your collection, both to dive into it's tecnical secrets as well as to discover the sheere joy of riding it! You wouldn't regret it, - promise! cheers

You got it right.

And regarding getting a GRiSO - in oktober last year, I bought a GRiSO 1200 8V 2010 with only 12.000km on the clock - with the only interest of changing from flat tappets to roller tappets + changing the sving arm bearings and rear damper low parts bearing.

I wanted to learn - not to drive. Since I am close to 74 now - I am happy with my first V7 Sport (and my Coppa Italia).

Now the GRiSO is ready for test driving - when the winter time here in Norway soon over.

I know that with only 12.000km - I would probably not get the free C-kits, due to low level of detoriation. So I bought a B-kit + the extra parts to do the full change myself. I have been in contact with Pete many times over the years - all positive.

When the B-kit arrived, I checked that I had a left and right side parts. So when I started the change from flat to roller - I started by coinsident with the left side. Then I saw that my B-kit left side was realy an A-kit part. My right side was a correct B-kit part.

Then what should I do. Well after some thinking - I saw that I could remaschine my A-type left side part to be a B-type. I discussed this also with Pete. I have a friend which is a very good maschinist that could perform the job for me.

So the result was all fine.

Now I want to test drive the GRiSO - before I will advertice it.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:48 am

Rolf Halvorsen wrote:
Pete

Your picture says it all. Thank you for posting this.

Why has not the factory given out any warnings?

Rolf

Because they don't give a shit Rolf. Surely after all these years you've realised that Piaggio/Aprilia/Guzzi corporate are a bunch of grifting slobs.
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Rolf Halvorsen
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Rolf Halvorsen


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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:41 am

It seems to me that the factory already has recognized the problem with blowing gasket on the 1200/1400 8V engines.

Article No.: B063861 Thickness about 0,5mm with a metal core and a softer material on each side.

I need to get some help to put in some pictures of this. Pictures are coming soon.

Rolf
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Rolf Halvorsen
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Montanarolo
Rolf Halvorsen


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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:50 am

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The new black on top of the thick paper gasket.
This shows that they are identical

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Here it says that it is a reinforced gasket for the 1200/1400 8V

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Here it should tell you about the thickness of 0,5mm and the metal core.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:14 pm

It should work then. The 1400's and later, post 2015 Grisos have a different sump arrangement but that looks like it would work and would probably solve the problem. The thicker aftermarket gasket works as well and is a lot cheaper but that's by the by as it's the sort of thing once done you're not going to be expecting to do again in a hurry.

While it certainly won't tear I'd be wary of it leaking until it's proven that it doesn't due to the woeful clamping by the two 6mm bolts. Give it a go and report back in 50,000km.
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Rolf Halvorsen
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 10, 2023 6:30 am

Pete Roper wrote:
It should work then. The 1400's and later, post 2015 Grisos have a different sump arrangement but that looks like it would work and would probably solve the problem. The thicker aftermarket gasket works as well and is a lot cheaper but that's by the by as it's the sort of thing once done you're not going to be expecting to do again in a hurry.

While it certainly won't tear I'd be wary of it leaking until it's proven that it doesn't due to the woeful clamping by the two 6mm bolts. Give it a go and report back in 50,000km.

It has been used on all 1400 models since they were released - and I have not "heard" of any leaks.

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janguzzi
Tiradritto
Tiradritto
janguzzi


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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:07 am

I don't get it. The gasktet Rolf shows looks completely different to the shape of upper one of the older Grisos. How should this work on an older GRiSO?
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Rolf Halvorsen
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Rolf Halvorsen


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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:39 am

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The picture exsplains the situation


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Only about 2,5mm for the gasket to seal

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Depending on that the gasket hole i sentered. Look closely at the bottom hole. Only about 2,0mm left for the gasket
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janguzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:49 am

Got it but there are also areas where there would be no gasket material if look at the green one underneath - will this work?
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Rolf Halvorsen
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Rolf Halvorsen


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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:13 am

All these gaskets will work on all big Guzzi's from 1965 until about 2020.

By the way - I do not understand your consern.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:46 pm

Jan, the only bits of the gasket that are important are the bits that do the sealing. Those are the outer periphery of the gasket that seals to the crankcase outer wall and the two *Strips* of gasket that go between the parts of the casting that the oil delivery galleries go through.

The, for want of a better term, 'Legs' of gasket material between that outer wall and the strips that seal the galleries perform no function apart from positioning the *Strips* correctly in relation to the castings. In reality you could cut the strips off and as long as you positioned them correctly on the galleries and stuck their clamping screws in to locate them as you offered up the spacer or sump that would be fine. The only reason for the 'Legs' is to simply make the installation easier! The difference in appearance of the two gaskets is, in this case, irrelevant. It's just two ways of skinning the same cat.

(Oh, and if that statement is confusing there is an old English saying that 'There's more than one way to skin a cat!' Meaning there's more than one way to achieve a certain end.)
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janguzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:12 pm

Thx Pete - got it. The only problem I see is that the sealing surfaces must be extremely clean and flat.
A reinforced metal gasket is of no use at all if the pan and flange are not flat, then the pressure also goes past it.
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Mariner92
Montanarolo
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Mariner92


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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 07, 2023 5:05 am

Hi to all. Had chance to look for the drill mark in the head today, pretty sure it's there, I've uploaded a few pics, but they're not best quality. Seen by eye, the drill mark looks pretty clear to me.
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Mariner92
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 07, 2023 5:07 am

Pics.[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:01 pm

Yup,that looks like a drill mark. What year is this machine?
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Mariner92
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:31 pm

2011 bike.
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Mariner92
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:05 pm

At the risk of sounding like a bit of a dill, the sump gasket to replace, is it between sump and spacer or spacer and casing ?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:00 pm

Between the spacer and the block, but you have to drop the sump to do that so you need both gaskets as the sump gasket usually tears when the sump is removed.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:07 pm

Mariner92 wrote:
2011 bike.

Well if it is a 2011 bike it's an early one. Looking at your pics on page one you'll need a 'B' kit. The give aways are the long plug tube stuck in the rocker cover and the early type rockers and valve lash adjusters.

'B' kit is a really simple install. No need to remove the heads.

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janguzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:39 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:09 am

Not entirely correct in my experience. The only way to truly know is to look for the drill marks in the paint on the heads and look for floating or non floating rocker covers.

Even using the factory engine numbers I know of several bikes with engines that post-dated the change over that had flat tappets. Truly, the only way to really know is to look.

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PostSubject: Re: Rollerised ??   Rollerised ?? - Page 2 Icon_minitime1

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