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 8V overcooling project

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Mbeach
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
Mbeach

Posts : 23
Join date : 2018-05-19

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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:52 am

What fitting did you use to adapt to the oil dipstick tube please?
Fluid control thermostats are cheap here (less than $50USD) at a number of places, $150 if you want an adjustable unit.
The cheapest unit bypasses the cooler circuit (10% flow) to 180F, then opens up full flow to the cooler. This would allow a quicker warmup for those with short commutes.
I’m all for trying (my bike has a whopping 550 miles on it) but I want to monitor the oil temp real time before I plumb in any hardware.
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OldMojo
Carlotto
Carlotto
OldMojo

Posts : 46
Join date : 2018-04-10

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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:53 am

Would someone be kind enough to temper my rank ignorance as to what problem is being addressed by this exercise?
I'm aware that EFI prefers consistent engine temps, which is harder to achieve with air cooling. Does overcooling cause the bikes to loiter in open loop or something?
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beetle
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
beetle

Posts : 7679
Join date : 2013-09-30

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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:50 pm


Simply put, during shorter runs and cooler weather, the oil/engine temperature doesn't get hot enough to prevent mayo development, and reduces fuel economy.

The former was never really an issue for myself, as I often used other methods to get the engine hot quickly in cooler weather, like blocking the air inlet to the oil cooler, and I never rode short distances. Since embiggening the engine, I've found the 1400 runs cooler than the 1200. It was frustrating my attempts to properly map the engine. Now, not only does the engine get up to "proper" operating temperature more quickly, it remains stable.

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Clancy
Biondino
Biondino
Clancy

Posts : 296
Join date : 2016-02-09

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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:18 pm

Mbeach wrote:
What fitting did you use to adapt to the oil dipstick tube please?

M20x1.5mm Male to 1/2" Female NPT
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Mbeach
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
Mbeach

Posts : 23
Join date : 2018-05-19

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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:39 pm

Thank you! My thread gauge was inadequate for the job.
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beetle
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
beetle

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Join date : 2013-09-30

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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:41 am


An update. Yesterday, I incorporated a temperature sensor into the oil cooling line from the sump to the thermostat.

The oil temp stabilised around 100C. It never went above 105, and never below 98 on cruise. Once the engine temp stabilised at 107C, oil temp sat on 101-103 the whole time. Ambient temp was 17C.


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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:47 am

Excellent!
Cooler bypass is something the factory should have included in initial development.
Cred given.
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ratso88
GRiSO Capo
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ratso88

Posts : 185
Join date : 2017-05-28
Age : 58

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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Beetle, thanks for the update. Since you originally posted on this project I've been thinking this thermostat is something I'd like to add. I don't ride the GRiSO in the winter, I have a Soviet sidecar rig for that, but I do like to get out on days when it's a bit cooler and still sunny. I hate it when I look at the indicated fuel consumption and it shows less than 30 mpg. With the oil temp sensor installed it seems to validate the project as being not exactly a requirement but at least strongly recommended.

I do appreciate your efforts and willingness to share information.  cheers
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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
Lazlokovacs

Posts : 75
Join date : 2015-08-20

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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:30 pm

hey beetle, that's amazing work....

do the 8v 1200s overcool as well? Is mayo more of a problem than on old tontis or about the same?

A good long thrash once a week always seemed to cure the mayo on my old guzzis

I love the idea of having it thermostatically controlled though

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Pete Roper
GRiSO Capo
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Pete Roper

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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:15 pm

The 8V's all grossly over cool. I can only imagine that not having the thermostat was simply a cost saving measure. While I'm sure the cool running accelerated the failure of flat tappets it wasn't the cause.

So far it seems that the coolness of the oil doesn't have any negative effect on the roller top end but I have had two machines that ran their big ends in very cool weather and I wonder if cold oil might of been a contributor as both were being thrashed mercilessly at the time they went 'Bang'. If the oil couldn't wedge properly dead bearings would be the inevitable result.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:23 am


I was always going to do this modification. I had overcooling problems with my 1200. Trying to keep the engine above 95 degrees when I was logging for a map build was a necessity and a massive pain to do in cooler weather. I used to resort to blocking the cooler intake. After the embiggening, it became paramount. I couldn't be happier with the result.




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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
Lazlokovacs

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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:58 am

when the bike gets here I'll have a look and see where I can fit it...

Your hidden install is the dogs bs, but I wouldn't be averse to having mine visible if it makes things easier



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beetle
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beetle

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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:44 am


Here's one on a Stelvio. Mounted on the front of the crankcase. Not where I would have put it.


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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
Lazlokovacs

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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:44 am

looking at the parts lists, I think your way is the only way....

as long as you don't mind me copying you

any info/tips on which fittings to use, hose routing etc would be gratefully and greatly appreciated.

I get the bike on Friday!!
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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
Lazlokovacs

Posts : 75
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:01 pm

forgot to mention, I have the same thermostat that you used, on order...
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beetle
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beetle

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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:54 pm

I'm more than happy for you to copy me. In fact, I'd encourage everyone to do this.

Since I made this up as I went along, I think there's opportunities to improve on it. The factory fittings are metric, but I used AN fittings as they were easy to buy. If you could find someone to make you custom hoses with metric fittings, or you can buy metric fittings and hose, it would make things easy. You would only need metric to AN adapters for the thermostat.



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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
Lazlokovacs

Posts : 75
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:38 pm

rad, sump and t piece for engine top end are all metric

and the stat is AN?

so choice is 4 adaptors at the stat or

adaptors at rad, engine and top end

or custom hoses
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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
Lazlokovacs

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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:42 pm

think best would be to measure up the hoses and get someone to make the hoses with the right connectors...

will keep you posted
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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
Lazlokovacs

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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:37 am

hey beetle, are the radiator fitting ends 16x1.5 same as the sump and top end fitting?

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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
Lazlokovacs

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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:23 am

update, I measured as best I could and I believe they are..
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beetle
GRiSO Capo
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beetle

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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:06 pm


Yes.




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GregC
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
GregC

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Age : 60

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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:54 am

Hey Beetle, do you remember the hose lengths you used?
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:15 am


Unfortunately, no. I should have recorded everything, but I made it up as I went along, and eyeballed everything. Nothing was measured. Hindsight, eh?




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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
Lazlokovacs

Posts : 75
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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:28 pm

my project is gathering pace... I can post up all my measurements once it's complete, probably monday... But... obviously the hose lengths will depend on the fittings used.

My set up is similar to beetle's except that I mounted my thermostat vertically, seems to fit better that way.

I get the hoses monday, fingers crossed they fit!

I'll post pics when it's all done


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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
Lazlokovacs

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PostSubject: Re: 8V overcooling project   8V overcooling project - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:42 am

Ok, so the thermostat is happily in situ,

unfortuntely I've run into problems,

I didn't notice that the banjo to the right cylinder is a double banjo

Re-ordering some new hose now

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